Wooden F1 Car

[Shrieker]

No, not one of those model threads. They're basically claiming that they've taken wood and made it 12 times stronger and 10 times tougher. Comparable to carbon fiber and cheaper. Who will pioneer the first wooden F1 chassis ?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 151829.htm

[Manoah2u]

actually, there already has been a wooden f1 car so it's nothing pioneering.

i present you PROTOS

http://en.f1i.com/images/288296-protos- ... coque.html

not only Wood, also a canopy.

In 1967, designer Frank Costin took full advantage of the very open nature of racing's regulatory framework.

Inspired by designs in the aircraft industry, the British engineer penned a Cosworth-powered F2 racer constructed entirely from timber!

The Protos-Costin was a bold concept but also a dangerous one which didn't really offer any real advantage over a traditional monocoque. The car sported some sleek aerodynamics however, with a perspex canopy integrated into its bodywork.

Back in the day when the German Grand Prix at the daunting Nurburgring accepted F2 cars in its field, Ron Harris Racing entered two Protos in the 1967 race, for Brian Hart and Kurt Ahrens.

Both cars retired in a race won by Brabham's Denny Hulme.

1967. that's 51 years ago.

Frank Costin, conceived another great idea: knowing the advantages of timber in constructing aircraft parts, he decided to ‘transfer’ them onto a single-seater that would race in Formula 2 championship. So, using thin wood sheets, he shaped a wholly wooden chassis, which he connected to a closed cockpit.

the use of plywood on the chassis, not only didn’t secure an advantage over the popular solution of aluminum but proved extremely dangerous too.

At the Mediterranean Grand Prix, a race in the Formula 2 championship context that was held at Ennia-Pergusa of Italy, Pedro Rodriguez went all out on the battle for second place with Jean Pierre Beltoise and had a major accident.

His chassis turned into… toothpicks, with the steering wheel constituting, according to the testimony of the marshal who picked it up, the largest part of what was left of the car, after the engine.

Rodriguez was flung a few meters ahead of the leader, Sir Jackie Stewart, miraculously avoiding the worst: a broken ankle was fortunately the only outcome of the incident.

sorry bud, there's nothing new under the sun.

it didn't prove successfull last time around, so if they advanced stuff today it might be interesting. but it is definately not new.

[Tommy Cookers]

WW2 era British aircraft mostly had compressed 'densified' laminated wood propellors
they were lighter than any metal ones
afaik the densification was primarily to standardise density and strength
and eg SARO 'compregnated' laminated wood was used in an aircraft structure at a density of 62.5 lb/cu ft

Costin was partner in Marcos which made c. 100 'wooden' road sportscars before converting their design to metal and GRP

the first McLaren F1 car's monocoque was made from Mallite - an Al alloy/balsa wood sandwich material

[roon]

I gather from their other work that they are replacing lignin with polymer. This is different from someone gluing together a cigar-chassis out of plywood 50 years ago.

[Greg Locock]

Note that they carefully don't mention stiffness. Many structures are stiffness limited, not strength limited. They also don't mention exactly how to fix things to it. The design of the hardpoints on a composite structure is where the real art is. Also they don't mention the cross grain properties.

[Shrieker]

@Manoah2u,

To be perfectly honest the thought crossed my mind, but I thought no one could've been crazy enough to build a racing car chassis from wood, but apparently they were And the canopy looks sick too ! That's a cool little gem from racing history !

Note that they carefully don't mention stiffness.

I thought this sure would get a mention here. And honestly didn't think it would take so many posts before some1 mentioned it

[Manoah2u]

@Manoah2u,

To be perfectly honest the thought crossed my mind, but I thought no one could've been crazy enough to build a racing car chassis from wood, but apparently they were And the canopy looks sick too ! That's a cool little gem from racing history !

Note that they carefully don't mention stiffness.

I thought this sure would get a mention here. And honestly didn't think it would take so many posts before some1 mentioned it

yeah it was funny that i actually stumbled upon it just this week actually, when the indyscreen discussion started, i remembered that 60s canopy and started browsing my bookmarks and googling, and then came across this formula 2 car and was quite surprised that there was a wooden body, so i saved it and read about it.

actually wanted to make a post about it but wanted to do some research about it first and haven't gotten around to it. then i saw your post and i couldn't keep it to myself

offcourse it's not entirely the same, polymers vs 'pure wood', even if it would be plywood, are essentially worlds apart, but i found it interesting nonetheless to mention that wood in racing isn't new.

shouldn't come as a surprise really, after all, cars originate from horse-'powered' coaches (hence coachbuilders) that got the horses replaced with electric engins at first and in due time with gasoline powered ones. wood has been regularly used in the automotive industry. replacing even doors and body panels at certain moments in history.

offcourse there's a reason why 'basic wood' got replaced by other materials.

it is funny though that technology is finding it's way 'back' to 'origin' materials if you may.
a couple of weeks or months ago already i read an article about transparant wood - there is a process that can turn wood transparant like glass, even though it's not really similar in clearness and smoothness, it's interesting nonetheless especially in application possibilities.
some historians, scientists and archeologists as well as paleontologists have recently joined forces in examining whether the 'bleaching/transparancy process' of transparent wood is at all new or could actually be an ancient craft gone lost over time, and whether (very) old houses could actually have had transparant wood installed. the paleontologist sounds like the odd duck in the mix but is due to researching whether nature had the required materials or functional equivalents of it present 'hidden' in certain plants, trees, etc.

if it turns out that it actually is a long lost art / craft, and is nothing new at all, then it could completely turn archeology and science upside down.

i thought it was interesting, since if wood or polymers of it can be used to make materials stronger and stiffer than carbon fibers than that likewise would turn the industry upside down - and potentially plummit carbon fiber prices even though it's still an intensive process which is essentially what gives it the cost.

[Manoah2u]

Note that they carefully don't mention stiffness.

I thought this sure would get a mention here. And honestly didn't think it would take so many posts before some1 mentioned it

And yes, the stiffness of the wood, surely will be up for debate. it's interesting that that mention came from a member that is called 'loCock'.

was it pun intended?

anyway back to the matter at hand

there's been blown diffusers too way before redbull and co 'perfected' it.
it's interesting that many 'innovative' things today may be technologically more advanced today due to years and years of advancement and research, but nearly all of it has already been around in one way or the other.

[Greg Locock]

Well to be honest people have been making lame jokes about my surname since grade 6. Haven't heard a witty one yet.

[humble sabot]

Only grade 6? you're lucky.
My instinct says the stiffness improvement should be significant, by volume at least. THe nature of the polymer in question will have a significant impact on the stiffness per mass. The article doesn't mention much in depth.
The 'article' Manoah2u quoted is mediocre and especially sensationalist in tone.
The fact is there are advantages and disadvantages to every material. As you might be aware F1 rub planks have been wood for the longest time, until the reintroduction of the Ti ones a couple seasons ago. They use in part a polymer impregnated wood that doesn't require much in the way of reinforcement around fixing points. A product like the one in question stands the chance of being better in that regard. It's always a question of balancing material properties and the geometry you need, and sometimes reevaluating the geometry you need.

lot of ways to skin a cat, as it were.

[humble sabot]

Of note that we're talking about a densified structure as well, so logically it makes sense to think of more like sheet metal in terms of use.
THis is the better article to reference: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature25476

[Rodak]

the first McLaren F1 car's monocoque was made from Mallite - an Al alloy/balsa wood sandwich material

You used to be able to buy sheets of this stuff at the Boeing Surplus shop; it was really stiff and light. BITD I built a coaster car for the Seattle Pike Place Market race using it for the base chassis.