Hungaroring Track Modification Suggestion

[Shrieker]

I know I'll probably be crucified by purists for saying this, but here goes nothing.



Excavate a portion of the hill seen above marked within the red ellipse, and push the final corner away some 150 meters. I checked from google earth (and from some other photos), there seems to be ample open space with nothing that seems significant. Instead of the final corner, insert mirror image of T11 from COTA ( the corner that leads to the back straight).

I think this fairly affordable modification would make Hungaroring great for racing. It would make the final corner a surprise overtaking opportunity, and enhance racing on the main straight and turns 1 and 2 greatly.

Just my $0.02.

[Sevach]

I like the idea.

[ESPImperium]

Not affordable, the ground in that part of the track is seemingly set on some pretty tough granite or some sort of impermeable rock and would need blasting to carve out, all down to the track being in a natural amphitheatre/bowl.

The two proposals that have been submitted for lengthening the track are realign coming out of T9 (T7 using new naming numbers) chicane and go for another 500m into the woods, the double back towards T11 (T9 new) with a sweeping hairpin there, this would create another DRS zone in the rear section of the track. Or T13 (T11 new) with a straight there with no high speed 7th gear right hander, but go into the bus park there.

The former idea is being considered, but the track would also have to plant an extra 5,000 trees to offset the trees being lost. However the idea of keeping the track as is is the most controversial as people have wanted the track made longer for a while now. I am in this camp, leave it as is as we don't have enough sub 4.5km tracks, however the rumour of the addition of Assen in 2019/2020 is gaining traction as Liberty want to exploit the Max Verstappen cash and get another 4.545km/68 lap track/race on the calendar.

I like this track, its my favourite in games, id like to keep it as is, just get the place more seating and a new main grandstand with new commentary boxes in it and rase the capacity from 70,000 to 80,000 will be ideal. Fan facilities is what all tracks need these days, better fan facilities like good toilets and WiFi and plenty of merchandise and good food options as well. No changes to layouts.

[OO7]

I know I'll probably be crucified by purists for saying this, but here goes nothing.

http://www.imgim.com/hungamaxresdefault.jpg

Excavate a portion of the hill seen above marked within the red ellipse, and push the final corner away some 150 meters. I checked from google earth (and from some other photos), there seems to be ample open space with nothing that seems significant. Instead of the final corner, insert mirror image of T11 from COTA ( the corner that leads to the back straight).

I think this fairly affordable modification would make Hungaroring great for racing. It would make the final corner a surprise overtaking opportunity, and enhance racing on the main straight and turns 1 and 2 greatly.

Just my $0.02.

Interesting topic Shrieker, because I produced a few designs last year after I learnt that there were plans to update the circuit, however I never posted any of my concepts. The problem with the COTA example is that the main straight at the Hungaroring isn't long enough. There will still be problems with not being close enough through S2 (aero), meaning that at the final corner the gap between the two cars will generally be too large preventing any overtaking. I say generally because with a very slow car (suffering from tyre degradation for example) ahead, then your design may help, but in such circumstances we already do see overtaking.

The following are a couple of designs I produced. I don't know how viable they are as I don't know how much land the circuit owns or has access to. Also it would require the hill and seating area in front of the final corner (The area in front of the cars, when they are at 90 degrees to the pit straight as they turn through the final corner) to be excavated to make room for run-off:

[Shrieker]

@ESP,

I certainly didn't consider having to blast out a good chunk of a big ass hard rock. I say dynamite the b***h, but as you say it's probably not as simple or cheap as I anticipated.

@Blaze,

Honestly, I don't want the character and the length of the track change too much. As it is, this track's got a unique character. The problem with the final corner is, it's a low to medium speed corner which does not help following at all, and when coupled with the short main straight, makes for bad racing and boring races. My proposition takes care of that, without altering the overall character of the circuit too much.

I'll try with my mad photoshop skills:

http://www.imgim.com/hungamod.png

This extends the main straight from around 830 meters, to around 980 meters. The run from the penultimate corner to the final corner would then be 350 meters (let's admit, it's not long enough to be of much use - still better than it is atm imho). Maybe we could consider pushing the penultimate corner some 50-60 meters away too (tuff luck, go kart track), bringing the total distance between two corners to just over 400; which could be a DRS zone. Again, the character of the circuit would not be impacted too much, and the costs would remain relatively modest (to some of the proposals which I weren't aware of).

I think such a change would enhance the racing on this track greatly. Add to that we're likely going to get cars next year which will be better at following, and with a more powerful DRS, we might even get scraps between similarly paced top cars.

But of course, bitching from the fans stemmed from poor racing can't do it alone. Promoter/track leaseholder, the locals, and the commercial rights holders all come into play making it an awkward equation.

[ESPImperium]

The rock would take the nearly 2 years to get taken out, as it can't be blasted out, it would have to be drilled and taken out via jack hammer. A cost of nearly €35,000 a day was offered in one feasibility report.

The track currently do not own the land at the extension that Blaze put in, they own a 99 year lease on it for use as a car/bus park, this lease started in 2006. It is intentionally to be left like this to keep the track small enough. The only bit of land the track owns, outside the track footprint, is the land adjacent to the 'back straight' coming off of T13 (T11 new) and if this was a to be expanded, it would add just 435m to the track length. However, the houses that are near by would then be allowed to apply a strict 90 day a year limit on track operations, meaning the track would be extremely limited on what it could do.



It seems that the track are going to do a 3 year grandstand expansion around the start/finish straight with a new grandstand, giving the main straight a stadium feel. However the main reason for this is to give the last corner especially a stadium feel, but also to allow it to fit 65,000 in there for the track to have a main stage and allow it to have a music festival in it. The Medical centre will have to move to the other end of the straight, but that can be done in a year or so.

If the track can get more revenue from what they have, it will be better than any track architecture changes, facility architecture is the thing that many track are looking at now.

[Shrieker]

Welp. What kind of a rock is it lol. I guess that's what happens when you comment without visiting the site first.

[ESPImperium]

According to the report i read in 2013/14 when the track was exploring layout options, it was fragmented rock of various types, it was recommended that extraction should be drill and jackhammer. The rock would become shrapnel if it was blasted out. There is a old well out of T3, thats why theres an old chicane there to avoid it.

Some more on the layout here: http://f1.wikia.com/wiki/Hungaroring

[roon]

The rock would take the nearly 2 years to get taken out, as it can't be blasted out...

Due to safety/zoning?

[ESPImperium]

The rock would take the nearly 2 years to get taken out, as it can't be blasted out...

Due to safety/zoning?

Probably.

[PlatinumZealot]

I know I'll probably be crucified by purists for saying this, but here goes nothing.

http://www.imgim.com/hungamaxresdefault.jpg

Excavate a portion of the hill seen above marked within the red ellipse, and push the final corner away some 150 meters. I checked from google earth (and from some other photos), there seems to be ample open space with nothing that seems significant. Instead of the final corner, insert mirror image of T11 from COTA ( the corner that leads to the back straight).

I think this fairly affordable modification would make Hungaroring great for racing. It would make the final corner a surprise overtaking opportunity, and enhance racing on the main straight and turns 1 and 2 greatly.

Just my $0.02.

Interesting topic Shrieker, because I produced a few designs last year after I learnt that there were plans to update the circuit, however I never posted any of my concepts. The problem with the COTA example is that the main straight at the Hungaroring isn't long enough. There will still be problems with not being close enough through S2 (aero), meaning that at the final corner the gap between the two cars will generally be too large preventing any overtaking. I say generally because with a very slow car (suffering from tyre degradation for example) ahead, then your design may help, but in such circumstances we already do see overtaking.

The following are a couple of designs I produced. I don't know how viable they are as I don't know how much land the circuit owns or has access to. Also it would require the hill and seating area in front of the final corner (The area in front of the cars, when they are at 90 degrees to the pit straight as they turn through the final corner) to be excavated to make room for run-off:
https://i.imgur.com/ylIsu41.png
https://i.imgur.com/7itoxOw.png

Both designs too dangerous. No runoff in the last turn.

[Brenton]

Q1) Why is the track so narrow? There's a lot of grass.... could parts simply get paved wider?

Q2) How about changing the 4-5-6-7 turns area into something like Malaysia/China's turn 1?

Q3) Get rid of turns 10 and 11, making the straight after 9 continue all the way to near 12-13-14, and make turn 12 much wider but sharper radius, like T1 at COTA?

[Jackles-UK]

Generally speaking, long corners before straights expected for passing makes for very poor racing due to the loss of aero grip for the car behind. Hungary isn’t alone in this with Barcelona, Silverstone and Australia all having straights plenty long enough to make passes normally but a car that is 0.5 secs behind at the entry to the final corner entries of all those tracks can be 1-1.5 secs behind on corner exit due to the loss of grip & taction. The updated aero rules will help but not eradicate this.

Changing the final corner to a sharper, 90 degree corner entry opening up on exit to use the existing track would be a big improvement. Think of the updated version of the Pereltada in Mexico:

[NathanOlder]

Yeah, surely making the final 2 turns in Hungary like turn 1 would make for better action ?

[roon]

Is track design about challenging drivers and engineers? Or entertaining television viewers?