new pitstop rules

[zeph]

https://the-race.com/formula-1/new-f1-p ... advantage/

In this article it is argued that the new regulations are going to mostly affect RBR as they have really invested in ludicrously fast pit stops. Whether or not that is intentional? I’m sure that will be hotly debated.

[Zynerji]

Of course mid-season rule changes are meant to alter the balance. Merc lost to a 3sec undercut and a 2s pitstop. Next race, 3s minimum pit stop.

It's like Balistre and Prost...

[RZS10]

This is interesting
"Horner [...] said that pitstops have already been slowed slightly this year following minor changes."

Are those 'minor changes' in the regs or some TD for this year that wasn't made public? This would mean that the FIA has had an eye on the pit stops for some time now, adjusted something and still did not end up with the desired result (what the desired result would have been is up for interpretation) - or am i reading too much into that sentence?

[Pyrone89]

So, which loose tyre on the Red Bull pit stops created the necessity for this in-season change coincidently hurting 1 of the championship contenders?

[Sieper]

A gun stripping a wheel nut seems very suspect too in this light of teams doing something to finish quicker. I cannot remember seeing that before in recent years. Now that the battle is finally on it is being waged on the green table as well as technically and on track.

[Big Tea]

It does not seem to 'fix' a problem that exists. Mandate a DNF and grid drop the following race if it seems to be a problem and let the competitor involved sort it out.
Speaking of which, there will no doubt be reaction to Bottas brainfade today too

[Pyrone89]

Dear god the irony. Mercedes complains about Red Bull fast pit stops (who last had a safety issue back in 2013) because they cant beat them, and use ‘safety as reason. Meanwhile Mercedes are the ones doing actual dangerous experiments with intentionally driving of in 2nd gear full throttle to speed up their stops.

[tpe]

As a fan, I hate the new TD.
I see no safety issue here. Generally I don't believe a word from Helmut Marco' statements, but this time I believe him.
RB pit stops are fast because they perfected a procedure and developed the necessary tools to support it.

[cplchanb]

Of course mid-season rule changes are meant to alter the balance. Merc lost to a 3sec undercut and a 2s pitstop. Next race, 3s minimum pit stop.

It's like Balistre and Prost...

dude its .15s PER RACE....RB vouched to neuture merc to lose 2s+ PER LAP this year

[michl420]

What happen if a mechanic push the button in this 0,15 sec window? The traffic light will stay red and nobody knows why. The solution can be a control light on the gun, so that the mechanic can see his own signal.

[jjn9128]

Unless I'm very much mistaken this will only lead to the chief mechanic pre-emptively giving the green light to bypass the hold? Rather than reacting to the completed stop. I bet it'll lead to more dangerous situations.

[101FlyingDutchman]

As a fan, I hate the new TD.
I see no safety issue here. Generally I don't believe a word from Helmut Marco' statements, but this time I believe him.
RB pit stops are fast because they perfected a procedure and developed the necessary tools to support it.

Amen. The only point I’d make is the subtle interaction between what the rules stipulate and “how” RB have interpreted it. It’s either legal or it isn’t. (Likely because of rule unclarity). But it clearly isn’t a safety thing, a total misnomer. To me it stinks (and I say this as an independent observer).

If F1 is about innovation and its demonstrated to be safe (automation error rate generally beats human error rate) then it should be allowed. This is about teams using everything in their arsenal to create a competitive advantage and I applaud Red Bull for looking into every aspect of their operation.

The “safety” angle is laughable. Everyone is at it, wrt creating advantages. See Bottas 2nd gear burn out in the pits. If they are going to create a “safety case” then no more burn outs in pitlane, no more unsafe releases without harsher penalties etc etc

[RZS10]

Unless I'm very much mistaken this will only lead to the chief mechanic pre-emptively giving the green light to bypass the hold? Rather than reacting to the completed stop. I bet it'll lead to more dangerous situations.

I think this might be prevented by the 0.2s delay between the pitstop being done and the car being dropped?

It's supposedly 0.15s for each wheel gun mechanic between being done and pressing the button and then another 0.2s after the last wheel is torqued. So in theory the chief mechanic shouldn't be able to pre-empt that ....

[Oehrly]

There is this discussion in the race thread about the meaning of a "passively acting" sensor system.

A "sensor system [that] may only act passively" could mean, in my opinion, that the system may only give a signal (audio/visual) to a human being who is in charge of the pit stop. But the sensor system may not actively control any part of the pit stop.

An example of what I mean.
1. Not Ok: All wheel gun sensors report that the wheel nuts are tight. The system sends a signal to the front and rear jacks and the car is automatically lowered.
2. Ok: All wheel gun sensors report that the wheel nuts are tight. The mechanics at the front and rear jacks receive an audio signal and manually lower the jacks.

Now, this is only one possible interpretation of what those rules might want to say. But is it the right interpretation?

[RZS10]

Do you mean this post in the RBR thread? I was in the process of replying to it when i saw your post here and my thoughts were very similar to yours ...

"Any sensor systems may only act passively" is such a weird definition. What is an example of a passive sensor? How does adding a delay relate to the enforcement of "passive sensors"?

I guess a button is passive? Is a torque sensor non - passive? Is that the distinction they are trying to make?

Why don't they just enforce the passive definition?

Here's what i had written:

I only know that sensors can be categorized as active and passive ... so the phrase of a sensor "acting passively" isn't uncommon, but it's apparently different in this context.
From what i've learned a passive sensor would be one that can't create a signal on it's own and needs an (electric) input in order to create a useable output, i guess there's solutions to measure torque which could be active or passive.

The interpretation here however seems to be that the sensor (whichever type they use) should only measure something (like the torque) and then 'passively' give a signal (which in itself is theoretically an "active" act if you want to be nitpicky) without being put into a further loop/system where it would actively trigger the "done" signal to the computer which then gives the go signal once every wheel is tightened.

Passively acting sensor: only give a cue to which the mechanic has to react via button press
Actively acting sensor: take away the above act from the mechanic and do it itself instead

One does not have to define a button as an active or passive element in this context, i believe.

edit: The delay would ensure that it's actually a reaction to the cue from the sensor, but it also takes away the possibility to pre-empt even without any 'active' sensor trickery.

edit2: I just saw that the race thread is also full of posts related to the matter