Engines and Fuels Loophole

[Venturiation]

Renault’s power unit chief has predicted the FIA will be stricter on upgrades in the future after “70 requests” from different manufacturers in 2022.

What kind of loopholes do think was used to do this? Isn’t 70 too much? And does that mean they can change fuel for reliability too?

Mercedes was the weakest engine in 2022 but the most reliable and they don’t need reliability uograde

[Stu]

They got one though, a new crankshaft was in the last batch of 2022 engines, apparently.

[Venturiation]

Can they ask for fuel upgrade because it’s damaging the engine?

[Holm86]

Can they ask for fuel upgrade because it’s damaging the engine?

Maybe if they can argue that they have too much knock

[PlatinumZealot]

Were the fuels frozen in 2022? If they were then that's the problem.

[AR3-GP]

It's quite semantical to blame knocking on the fuel. Knock can arise for many many reasons. It just so happens that a new fuel mixture can be a solution. That does not mean that the current fuel is the problem.

If high combustion chamber temperature and pressure is causing knock, then you can reduce the boost pressure to eliminate the knock. Quite simple and much less expensive than reinventing the fuel.

Allowing them to change their fuel mixture allows them to increase power which subverts the intention of the regulations. No one should be using "Reliability" tweaks to gain power especially with regards to fuel because if you open the fuel can of worms, then you have an infinite design space for power improvement.

[saviour stivala]

A fuel mixture change is not allowed. Fuel and engine oil upgrades deadline was 1 March 2022. But a change of fuel and engine oil supplier is permitted.
The 2022 specification fuel is far more resistance to knock than the previous fuel used.

[Tommy Cookers]

The 2022 specification fuel is far more resistance to knock than the previous fuel used.

is there a source of this information ?
or is this an unevidenced assumption

the fuel rules from 2014 have never had an upper limit to knock resistance (octane number)

[johnny comelately]

From that other series
(And I think he meant sugar beets)

[saviour stivala]

The 2022 specification fuel is far more resistance to knock than the previous fuel used.

is there a source of this information ?
or is this an unevidenced assumption

the fuel rules from 2014 have never had an upper limit to knock resistance (octane number)

Refare to:-. Re: Mercedes power unit hardware and software. post of 18 Jan 2023 06:47. "According to finer technical points 'Thomas' (Hywel), they concentrated on running/pushing the engine harder on the new homologated fuel configuration knowing that although the new fuel calorific value was lower, the knock resistance was higher".

[AR3-GP]

The 2022 specification fuel is far more resistance to knock than the previous fuel used.

is there a source of this information ?
or is this an unevidenced assumption

the fuel rules from 2014 have never had an upper limit to knock resistance (octane number)

It's common knowledge that increased alcohol content increases knock resistance at the expense of energy density. The ethanol itself has a higher octane rating than gasoline so when you mix them, the effect is to increase the octane rating of the blend.

[Tommy Cookers]

1. The 2022 specification fuel is far more resistance to knock than the previous fuel used.

2. It's common knowledge that increased alcohol content increases knock resistance at the expense of energy density.
3. The ethanol itself has a higher octane rating than gasoline so when you mix them, the effect is to increase the octane rating of the blend.

1. it's unlikely the 2022 fuel has far more resistance to knock (it's not very different from the 2021 2020 2019 etc fuel)

2. at lean mixtures ethanol has a low octane rating - so won't increase knock resistance (of high-octane gasoline)

3. we don't know alcohol has a higher octane rating than what the FIA implies is gasoline (eg 140 octane is legal)

[JordanMugen]

3. we don't know alcohol has a higher octane rating than what the FIA wants us to see as gasoline (150 octane is legal)

Why not make a rule that all the cars must run on "pump gas" from a single supplier which is supplied by the organisers, like in NASCAR? No need to cart special blends around the US (or world), NASCAR will bring it along for you?

Or is "spec" the wrong path for Formula One? ...Even though spec part rules already apply to the ECU, wheels, tyres, wheel covers and halo.

So much if you want to run customised Goodyear tyres on customised Apptech rims, you may not do so, should the same apply to desires to run customised Mobil or Petronas fuel similarly? Tough. Aramco pump fuel for everyone?

[Big Tea]

3. we don't know alcohol has a higher octane rating than what the FIA wants us to see as gasoline (150 octane is legal)

Why not make a rule that all the cars must run on "pump gas" from a single supplier which is supplied by the organisers, like in NASCAR? No need to cart special blends around the US (or world), NASCAR will bring it along for you?

Or is "spec" the wrong path for Formula One? ...Even though spec part rules already apply to the ECU, wheels, tyres, wheel covers and halo.

So much if you want to run customised Goodyear tyres on customised Apptech rims, you may not do so, should the same apply to desires to run customised Mobil or Petronas fuel similarly? Tough. Aramco pump fuel for everyone?

They would lose all the other petroleum sponsorship then

[AR3-GP]

1. The 2022 specification fuel is far more resistance to knock than the previous fuel used.

2. It's common knowledge that increased alcohol content increases knock resistance at the expense of energy density.
3. The ethanol itself has a higher octane rating than gasoline so when you mix them, the effect is to increase the octane rating of the blend.

1. it's unlikely the 2022 fuel has far more resistance to knock (it's not very different from the 2021 2020 2019 etc fuel)

So is that why all the manufacturers lost 40-50bhp and publically admitted to struggling with the "not very different" fuel?

Mercedes: https://www.racefans.net/2022/02/06/new ... des-admit/

Honda: https://www.planetf1.com/news/honda-dif ... 2022-fuel/