Tyre battles (or lack thereof)

[Rob W]

With Bridgestone offering an extra three day test for it's new customers... what does everyone think about the teams who are changing over?

Will they be far behind the rest or will they be fine? Does anyone here know a lot about the differences in tyres from a balance or car handling characteristics point of view?

Rob W

[Spyker MF1]

I reckon to start of they will be at a disadvantage but think how quikly the guys work. Look at Renault after losing their mass dampers it only took them a couple of races to get over it

[pRo]

If Bridgestone just makes new tyres and gives them to every team at a same time, I don't think anyone has a real advantage or disadvantage. They won't be anything like this year anyway.

But if they listen to some of their old customers more than the new, then yes, the old customer might have an advantage over the new ones.

[Tom]

In theory it will make the racing closer, everyone will be on the same level at every track they go to, and the huge difference between this and last years tyre, coupled with the relatively new V8s will mean that even the most experienced guys will have to start from scratch on their setup.

[DaveKillens]

Today, any team that ran the Bidgestones has a slight advantage. But that wil probably be reduced by the beginning of the season.
The cozy arraingement between Schumacher, Bridgestone, and Ferrari most likely is now history, there are many reasons the believe they have divorced. The '05 season was a total disaster for Bridgestone, they probably would like to forget it all. Through no fault of their own Bridgestone did not end this season with any titles, even though they produced a tire good enough. So although in public Todt and Bridgestone may appear all warm and huggy-huggy, there has to be a current of animosity.
So no longer will we see Bridgestone tires designed and built just to suit Schumacher, now there wil be a tire more generalized for all teams. Not even Ferrari will have any advantage.
It now comes down to whoi can build a chassis that can make these tires work best. Suspension design and chassis will be more important, and it will force designers to decide if the zero keel setup really is worth all that money.

[manchild]

[Rob W]

I've thought about it more and think that, in some ways, Bridgestone have every reason to pray an existing customer wins next year. It might sound weird but if McLaren or Renault came in and won the F1 series first year back it would look - retrospectively - that their true 'main' customer in 2006, Ferrari, had a significantly underperforming car or that Bridgestone's development work was far inferior to Michelin's.

Imagine if, from the beginning of next season the teams which are switching over absolutely annihilate the Ferrari's... how bad will it look from a design, handling and development process point of view?.. if, all along, the Bridgestone-shod cars had been at a big disadvantage - much moreso than anyone thought?

Rob W

[bhall]

To slow the cars, the FIA is probably going to mandate that next year's tires be hard as hell compared to what we've all seen in the past. Because of that, I think each team will be on a pretty level playing field. The only advantage existing Bridgestone teams will enjoy will be a familiarity with the way Bridgestone operates as a supplier.

[manchild]

Well, compare that issue with Williams and Benetton. Williams had Renault engines from 1989, won 2 WDC and 3 WCC up to 1995 and in 1995 Benetton beat them without having any prior experience with Renault engines.

[Rob W]

Well, compare that issue with Williams and Benetton. Williams had Renault engines from 1989, won 2 WDC and 3 WCC up to 1995 and in 1995 Benetton beat them without having any prior experience with Renault engines.

For sure, I can see that side of too. I'm not wearing a tin-foil hat thinking of conspiracy theories or anything but it just dawned on me that Bridgestone and Michelin lost little love with each other during their time competing and I wonder if any of that also spread to the teams.

Tyres seemed to be a massive plus or minus at different stages of this season in particular and Michelin really did do a better job over the course of the season. How much of the secrecy, protests, accusations etc by teams can really all of a sudden be fogotten. Remember Renault/Michelin and the chemical treating of tyres accusations a few races ago? You can't tell me there isn't someone important at Bridgestone who was fuming at Flavio or whoever who accused them of cheating?

I was all for a return to slicks as it would essentially level it once again for all teams although then the FIA would face other problems to slow the cars :p

Rob W

[Ciro Pabón]

I bet all my marbles that what worries Bridgestone right now is that they have disppeared from F1 for all practical purposes. Who cares about the tyre manufacturer when there is only one? Even the little column on the scorecard, full of M's and B's, will be gone.

What worries me is that some smart executive at Bridgestone is probably thinking about why they spend so much money for so little coverage. They won't sit still. I am afraid the farce of the red-sided tires is about to start.

[Hondanisti]

Bridgestone have every reason to pray an existing customer wins next year. It might sound weird but if McLaren or Renault came in and won the F1 series first year back it would look - retrospectively - that their true 'main' customer in 2006, Ferrari, had a significantly underperforming car or that Bridgestone's development work was far inferior to Michelin's.

... how bad will it look from a design, handling and development process point of view?.. if, all along, the Bridgestone-shod cars had been at a big disadvantage - much moreso than anyone thought?

if the tires were remaining the same as 2006's options then, I would agree with you but these 2007 "red" and "non-red" harder compound spec tires are a whole new kettle of fish...if you looked back at how Ferrari performed and then compared at the former Michelin teams' performance on these new Bridgestones, you'd be comparing apples to oranges - in other words, they're not comparable as benchmarks.

I think each team will be on a pretty level playing field. The only advantage existing Bridgestone teams will enjoy will be a familiarity with the way Bridgestone operates as a supplier.

That's no small thing...having a familiarity with who to contact for specific info or to get things done. It may give them the jump early in the season to get race wins and a points lead, just like Renault did in these past 2 years.

I think it was very smart of Bridgestone - whether it was intentional or not - to move this year's Technical director Hisao Suganuma out of the equation for next year. His longstanding relationship with Ferrari through the championship years must have built a strong bond or loyalty as comrades in battle. It wouldn't take much for Ferrari to get the ear to the inside man, if he was still head honcho. This way, it saves face for Suganuma in that he isn't obligated to be the go between for specific department heads with Ferrari if they call in a favour due to past friendships. Since he is out of the loop, he can plea ignorance of the new inner workings without lying. They've removed any potential misperception of conflict of interest/favouritism.

[Hondanisti]

I bet all my marbles that what worries Bridgestone right now is that they have disppeared from F1 for all practical purposes. Who cares about the tyre manufacturer when there is only one? Even the little column on the scorecard, full of M's and B's, will be gone.

They've played the sole tire supplier role before in the late 90's- before Michelin rejoined the F1 circus. It's just deja vu for them.

I never considered Goodyear as being a forgotten brand when they were the sole tire supplier in F1. In fact, it gave them legitimacy and credibility that they were supplying the technical pinnacle of motorsports.

The difference was that they were willing to try new ideas whereas we are going to be in a static position for 2007 with fixed options for the entire year and little to no development. The new thing will be the slicks (in 2008 ?).

[Reca]

Every time I hear talk about a team having to change tyres I always remember about an interview Adrian Newey gave to Piola in Monaco 2002 and published by Autosprint. Piola asked him about the problems they had in switching from Bridgestone to Michelin and while reading the question I was already thinking about changes in suspensions, mass distribution etc etc, but Newey said that the main issue was to redesign the front wing endplates because the shape of the tyres was completely different and that changed the aerodynamics of the whole front end...
I mean, that Michelin and Bridgestone tyres had very different shape is something everybody knew, but to consider that as the main issue is something not really immediate.

Then last week, again on Autosprint there was an interview with Fisichella, here the interesting parts related to tyre change :

Q : Do you like the single tyre ? :
GF : yes, a lot. To race with Bridgestone is IMO a positive thing. This year the performances of the two suppliers were comparable considering the whole season, but the Michelin tyres mounted on the Renault R25 and R26 needed a driving style I always had troubles to get used to. I could do it in the optimal way for a single lap but not for a series of laps. I think Bridgestone tyres are better suited to my driving style. As for the design of the new car, Renault will have to straight away understand the characteristics of the tyres. We had two important meetings, where, knowing that Alonso was leaving and I was staying, engineers guaranteed me that the 2007’s car design will follow my requirements. Also Kovalainen drives in the same way as I do.
Q : For December test there should be a limited number of Bridgestone tyres, there’s even the hypothesis to use Michelin tyres...
GF : I hope that’s not true since to test with Michelin would be wasted time. The change of tyres isn’t a joke, on the wind tunnel we already tested with Bridgestone tyres finding that performance changed, we lost a lot of downforce. For that reason it’s important to work immediately and a lot on the track, because the teams that switched from Michelin to Bridgestone initially will be disadvantaged

Then there’s another part where he makes even more clear how the design of the front end (that obviously needs to be matched with tyre shape) is important, in fact he says that after the contact with MS in Brazil, he lost grip because the contact ruined part of the front wing endplate and, according to telemetry, that reduced efficiency by 6%.

[vyselegend]

To slow the cars, the FIA is probably going to mandate that next year's tires be hard as hell compared to what we've all seen in the past.

It makes me think of a comment made by, I think, a michelin engineer near the begining of the season. He said that, with the experience gained from 2005 compounds, some of the softer tyres they made for 2006 could very well last the whole race, despite the rule allowing to change them.

Later in the season, it didn't seem to be true, because the tight championship war forced both tyre manufacturers to search for the ultimates tenth of a second in the softer edge of their compounds.

But if it is right, and the FIA is asking for harder tyres for 2007, what would stop teams to run like in 2005, with no tyre change?
Or, put in the other way, what will stop Bridgestone to just update their 2005 tyres, which would be even less expensive than trying to developp a brand new one, even if it's a "low-cost" one?...