Alumium floor

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allan
allan
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Joined: 14 Jan 2006, 22:14
Location: Waterloo, Canada

Alumium floor

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hey guys
this may sound stupid, but i was wondering why don't F1 teams use some kind of a metal such as aluminium ,for example, to construct their cars' floors.. Since the floor is the lowest part of the car, they can put most of the weight in that area, which would allow them to lower the center of gravity...
does that make any sense at all?

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tomislavp4
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006, 17:07
Location: Sweden & The Republic of Macedonia

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I don´t think it would leave free weight for the ballast which I think is more important :-k

manchild
manchild
12
Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

Re: Alumium floor

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"Floor" spans approximately from below driver's feet to diffuser. Having COG in the very center of the car means exactly that - as close to that very spot as possible.

scarbs
scarbs
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Joined: 08 Oct 2003, 09:47
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

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I don’t think an aluminium floor would give any benefits, if you consider the complex shape and strength required, Fabricating such a floor from alloy would be a waste of effort.

RacingManiac
RacingManiac
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Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 02:29

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also probably won't be stiff enough.....and if it is the weight would then become prohibiting....

allan
allan
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Joined: 14 Jan 2006, 22:14
Location: Waterloo, Canada

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i can see ur points guys
In fact, this idea came to me after i read an article about Ferrari's box wing (2005 season). Apparently, they tried using materials such as alloy or even iron, in order to lower the center of gravity... So i thought about constructing the whole floor or at least the lower flap of the front wing, but is there any safety regulation which forbids that kinda wing?

dedge
dedge
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Joined: 28 Jan 2007, 20:42
Location: France, Toulousô

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A lower center of gravity is only better on track with many grip.
On wet tracks (or with low grip) a higher center of gravity allow to apply mre weight on external tires. This is the lonly way to have more grip.

Moreover, a higher center of gravity allow to have a softer suspension, with more travel.
I will not be surprised that the suspension setting at Monza is softer than in Montreal.

scarbs
scarbs
393
Joined: 08 Oct 2003, 09:47
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

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there were rule clarifications on how much weight could be carried in the front wing, so I dont see a metal wing as being allowed.
already the splitter at the front of the car is effectively a tungsten component, and the base of the engie,gearbox and chassis are over engineered to add weight
I dont the teams need much more freedom to add ballast

Belatti
Belatti
33
Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

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Aluminum is not too heavy at all.

COG is not everything that matters, also the car has to got the minimum moment of inertia.

A heavy-metal plank floor would work only in the center part of the car and not as a structural element.

Here in Argentina there is a Tourism Car championship (TC) where rules stated that the winner of each race must load 25Kg+ to the minimum, till a maximun of 100Kg. (Cause of that, there are 16 races and almost 16 winners every year, with 5 drivers fighting for championship).
The interesting thing is, WHERE TO PUT THAT EXTRA WEIGHT?
Some load the drivers weight of iron bars to the floor, at the opposite of the drivers seat to minimize weight bias, others send weight to the back of the car (front engine, RWD) that helps rear end braking and makes car oversteer.

I think it depends on track layout and condition, drivers "style" and car configuration.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

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checkered
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 14:32

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allan wrote:... i was wondering why don't F1 teams use some kind of a metal such as aluminium ,for example, to construct their cars' floors ... Since the floor is the lowest part of the car, they can put most of the weight in that area, which would allow them to lower the center of gravity ...
Well, of course, in a

sense they do construct the floor of aluminium. But its density alone would speak against the use of it as ballast. It's a component in the carbon fiber sandwich composite of which parts of the chassis are constructed. The aluminium therein is a honeycomb structure that evidently can be processed into complex shapes (a process the finer niceties of which are unfamiliar to me). I've had the chance to examine such parts rather superficially, but there weren't enough indications for me to draw any definite conclusions. I do know the process by which a planar mesh is produced. Aluminium deforms irreversibly under mechanical stress, but I don't know whether it's that or if the honeycomb sheet is machined down to curving shapes without altering all the dimensions of the mesh to produce complex shapes. In either case the structural calculations down to a certain accuracy can't be very easy.

What I do know is that the honeycomb has one of the best strength to weight ratios of available materials. Sandwiched with carbon fiber, the best properties of both materials can be utilized. Whereas a solid aluminium part is susceptible to advancing stress fractures and such and the shapes would have to be designed by avoiding specific physical discontinuities in forms, composites may offer more freedom of design by avoiding such problems by default. Anyway, reading this forum it's become clear to me (even if I wasn't under any illusion before, either) that I'm a complete dilettante when it comes to truly understanding how forging, different kinds of stress, chemical reactions, heat and purposeful deformations alter the structural properties of metals and alloys. And that it's likely I will remain so indefinitely. It's one thing to look up figures from charts, quite another to understand the goings-on inside the material at any depth.

Fortunately we've got people around who can easily satisfy our curiosity to the degree that we're able stretch our imaginations to ask such things. There are some very flexible CAE programs around that do take into account the effects of deformations in the production of the parts on the materials used. Perhaps someone here could delve a little deeper into working with aluminium mesh in 3D and the processes of bonding it with carbon fiber?

RH1300S
RH1300S
1
Joined: 06 Jun 2005, 15:29

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It seems to me that there would be two obvious reasons why you would not want the whole floor to be aluminium:

First: - Stiffness against weight - the floor needs to be stiff (or maybe we should say it should only flex as much as is desired ;)) as it is an aerodynamic surface and is presumaby subject to quite a deal of force pulling it down.

Second: - In using a big lump of material of this size you are severely limiting your scope to place the CofG where you want it (fore and aft position rather than height). By having a very light and stiff floor you leave yourself freedom to add ballast in very sepcific positions.

Reading between the lines of any technical discussion about F1 cars, you would have to deduce that the fore/aft CofG position is critical to a very fine degree (fractions of a %??) - it's certainly not a case of "well no problem if it's a few percent away from where we want it" ;).