BMW experiments saw edge gurney flap in Monza

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bar555
bar555
10
Joined: 08 Aug 2007, 18:13
Location: Greece - Athens

BMW experiments saw edge gurney flap in Monza

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BMW in Monza used a strange figure in it's rear wing . BMW placed a saw edge gurney flap which is usually used in high attack angle wings to reduce turbulence and not in a low angle wing that BMW had . Really strange .
Every datail is really very important for a car

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Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
32
Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

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ribblets reduce skin friction drag, the major drag component at high speed/low angle downforce tracks like monza.

bar555
bar555
10
Joined: 08 Aug 2007, 18:13
Location: Greece - Athens

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If it is so simple explain me why Mc Laren,Renault and Ferrari did not used it . They did not have a gurney flap at all. I know you may say that every car has it's own aero-design which means that an element might not work in other cars . BUT rear wing is the last aero part of a car and a gurney flap is at the rear edge of the wing , so it does not cause any problem to the aero-efficiency .According to you ribblets are always beneficials at high speed/low angle downforce tracks like monza .

zac510
zac510
22
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 12:58

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I'm quite confident that one wouldn't define the saw-tooth gurney as a riblet. It's just a gurney flap with lower drag penalty and they usually get rolled out at Monza and Monaco by at least one team.

Thanks for pointing it out. I thought Renault were one of the first to use it but I'm probably wrong.

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
32
Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

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BAR55: of course the rear wing does affect the aero efficiency!

Zac:
You're right, i was wrong, those saw tooth Gurney flaps are a little bit more complicated.

They're aimed at preventing the vortices induced by the gurney flap by creating small vortices in 3D.

But the final result is about the same and i'll answer bar55 again:

This result in reduction of the skin friction and pressure drag on the main rear wing wich is a function of speed.
Lift to drag ratio is the motto of 2007 season with engines freeze.

Now why other team do not use it? well the correct question you should have made is why....not anymore?

from 2001 to 2004 a lot of teams used it.

To quote on engineer from F1 "to copy something you have to understand the philosophy behind it, else it is useless".

bar555
bar555
10
Joined: 08 Aug 2007, 18:13
Location: Greece - Athens

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Rear wing is the last part of a F1 car . It is effected aerodynamically by the frontier aero parts such as mirrors , cockpit shoulders , airbox winglet etc . Behind rear wing is simply nothing so a rear wing itself does not effect aero efficiency of other elements .
The role of a rear wing is to produce the needed downforce with the least drag penalty .So according to that "saw-tooth gurney flap reduces skin friction drag, the major drag component at high speed/low angle downforce tracks like monza.."makes you think that all the teams should have a saw-tooth gurney flap in Monza to reduce the unwanted drag . BUT it is not used by all teams .


Ogami musashi wrote : "Now why other team do not use it? well the correct question you should have made is why....not anymore? "

Teams still use saw -tooth gurney flaps occasionally and even in front wings such as Ferrari .The mystery is why teams have not the obvious choise-solution in standard aerodynamic functions which in this case is to use the saw -tooth gurney flap in fast tracks

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
32
Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

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The aero efficiency you call it , is the lift to drag ratio. It takes into account ALL parts of the car, and if you want into details all thoses parts affect and are affected.

The rear wing for instance influences the diffuser (which itself influences the rear wing) it also affect the air behind the rear wing that plays a big role into the overall drag level.


Next, your logic is special here, the bridge flap on the Mclaren is efficient, why ferrari don't use it then? because it is not their philosophy for the whole car.


As i said, cars are built according to a philosophy , some parts simply do not fit into that one.

RACKITUP
RACKITUP
0
Joined: 23 Apr 2006, 18:27

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Ogami musashi wrote:ribblets reduce skin friction drag, the major drag component at high speed/low angle downforce tracks like monza.

Serrated Gurneys are not the same as riblets, which run parallel to the surface flow (although they should diverge slightly with increasing Reynold's Number), and with ridges that are not visible to the naked eyes (in the order of Y+ of 7units)

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
32
Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

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yeah thank you, i just apologized two posts above...