Vectoring sidepod shields/vanes.

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Conceptual
Conceptual
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Vectoring sidepod shields/vanes.

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A friend (N. Litwhiler) and I were talking about movable aero last night, and he said something pretty interesting.

He was musing as to the possibility of vectoring the sidepod shields under braking like a parachute. Now he was also entertaining the possibility of using the forced air to spin electricity generating turbines on the exit of the sidepod. He thought that the air post-radiator would be hotter than the air coming in, so it would spin the turbine faster.

My question is this.

Would vectoring the shields/vanes outward help to slow the car, and if so, would it increase the pressure inside the sidepod. And can the same shields be vectored inwards at speed to decrease drag?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Chris

PNSD
PNSD
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Joined: 03 Apr 2006, 18:10

Re: Vectoring sidepod shields/vanes.

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my major concern is weight.

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flynfrog
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Re: Vectoring sidepod shields/vanes.

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your turbine is simply adding drag and wasting the power of your engine

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WhiteBlue
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Vectoring sidepod shields/vanes.

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moving them outward would help with braking but movable aero devices are not permitted. KERS is a better solution.

moving them inwards would defeat the objective I'm afraid. They are there to guide the air and they would not do the job if you fold them inwards.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Conceptual
Conceptual
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: Vectoring sidepod shields/vanes.

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WhiteBlue wrote:moving them outward would help with braking but movable aero devices are not permitted. KERS is a better solution.

moving them inwards would defeat the objective I'm afraid. They are there to guide the air and they would not do the job if you fold them inwards.
1. Movable aero is coming anyways, isnt it?

2. Folding them inward, thus closing off the sidepod inlet at speed, would still have them guiding air, and the thought was to reduce drag.


Now the turbine thing was an offshoot, and not really the central part of the conversation.

Using the vectorable sidepod shields under braking, and possibly linking them to the steering controls so they could help in turning as well was the main chat.

Thanks for the replies.

Chris

Saribro
Saribro
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Joined: 28 Jul 2006, 00:34

Re: Vectoring sidepod shields/vanes.

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Conceptual wrote:Would vectoring the shields/vanes outward
As the are positioned now, instant carwidth-rule breaking, so no go.

bazanaius
bazanaius
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Joined: 08 Feb 2008, 17:16

Re: Vectoring sidepod shields/vanes.

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Also, they're going to be banned outright next year anyway no?

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WhiteBlue
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Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: Vectoring sidepod shields/vanes.

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the main reason is that air brakes would create turbulences which would make overtaking more difficult. KERS make a lot more sense than creating turbulence.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Conceptual
Conceptual
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: Vectoring sidepod shields/vanes.

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WhiteBlue wrote:the main reason is that air brakes would create turbulences which would make overtaking more difficult. KERS make a lot more sense than creating turbulence.
Sure, but KERS doesnt help your ability to outbreak someone into a corner. Vectoring the shields even 6 degrees would.

As for them being banned next year, NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE! Things are obviously at a consideration stage as of now, but I believe Ogami said that the finalized regs wont be published until July or August. So it is still possible for something like side-pod vectoring to be added to the front wing adjustability that has been talked alot about...

Does anyone have Pat Symonds email address? I would just shoot him an email about it...lol

Chris

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checkered
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 14:32

Re: Vectoring sidepod shields/vanes.

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Conceptual wrote:Sure, but KERS doesnt help your ability to outbreak someone into a corner. Vectoring the shields even 6 degrees would.
Apart from the relative

pointlessness of inventing reasons for air brakes to exist in Formula One "after the fact" (I think that such a thing is at least more likely to arise from a specific objective), the way KERS affects braking ability definitely is something its designers will not lose sight of. Understood and applied in a superior manner to the competition, it is just the sort of thing that can allow a driver to gain an advantage towards a corner.

The environment in which air brakes function is manyfold more unpredictable than the variance in mechanical deceleration capability, even if the two are dynamically coupled. It is that very relationship that has been so widely discussed here, by the OWG and in many another fora. While much is possible in the all but infinite realm of realisable vehicles, actuating the so called "sidepod shields" in anything resembling a current F1 car can only result from a much more comprehensive rethink of the whole basic layout than tinkering with a couple of components.

And in that case, without any other pertinent context, you may as well be debating Formula One as you may not. Consider the answers you got thus far, which scarcely have a focus. Mostly that reflects the qualities of the point of departure to this exchange, which is open-ended to say the least. Yes, moving a winglet relative to the trajectory on which it travels through a mass of air will have an effect, as "for every force there is an equal, but opposite, force". That, to the best of my capabilities and resources is the exhaustive and definitive answer to your question.

Other than that, I feel we're somewhat left to our own devices rather than a collective purpose to invent why this discussion occurs. Should someone actually manage in vectoring something out of the entirety of these comments and - speaking of aerodynamics - thin air, I'm partial to thinking that his or her ideas merit consideration in their own right. In such a case there will be no comparison at all between personal prowess in innovation and the generality of notions herein.

As to Pat Symond's email address, the Renault website is in fact very interactive. While it may be a long shot to get an answer from him directly, there's a good chance that someone from the team personnel (even though the messenger might be from the PR department) will get back to you through proper "team fansite" channels.
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." - Yogi Berra

fastback33
fastback33
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Joined: 29 Aug 2007, 08:45

Re: Vectoring sidepod shields/vanes.

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Interesting thinking. I had a similar idea to your air brake and turbine ideas. But more generated towards something of a roadcar/lemans racer. in essence the brakes are controlled via switch inside the car. When the brake pedal is pushed, whether the button is on or off, the air brakes come up.

Then i thought, now what can i do with the air that is being used to slow the car?? The idea came quickly from a previous thread on hear about using aero to supercharge the engine. this the air that is used to brake is then sent into the intake on the engine, and can somehow be compressed through this process. Not entirely thought through and i don't have a viable solution as i'm just starting the "meat" of my engineering education.