Ecclestone, the concord and break away plans

[WhiteBlue]

So now it finally has happened as F1technical report. FOM is preparing the break away from FIA.

Here is the LINK to the new central organ of the break away series.

This is clearly more realistic than giving a lot of interviews without impact on the facts. Bernie must have been reading the F1 technical forum! I have identified that strategy in May.

... If they can vote to convene by fax, why can't they vote to expel Max via the same mechanism? Answer: They certainly can. ...

if you are interested to know what the statues are please inform yourself

http://www.fia.com/thefia/statutes/Files/index.html and there article 8

.......

.... I think Max should go. In fact, I think he should have been forced out as soon as the story broke.....

.....

the only alternative way to remove Mosley from governing F1 racing would have been a revolt of the teams and the FOM cutting away from the FIA and creating a new sanctioning body.

It will be interesting to see if this is just a way of putting pressure on Mosley and the FIA or if they will be taking further action. It will be particularly interesting to listen to the comments of Williams, Ferrari and Red Bull.

Potentially the manufacturers could be involved in a new governing body with equity shares and Newscorp could be in it as well. This is a 100% riot with a potential departure from all we have known in F1 for many years and certainly a lot could change. It would require some really big decisions by the manufacturers and their teams and some clever legal documents. I wonder who will set this up for Ecclestone. The last time Mosley did it. It will be revealing to see who is the operator in this new scheme.

[slimjim8201]

Any outstandingly negative impacts of leaving the FIA? If FOM decides to leave, would other branches of motor sport also consider distancing themselves?

[WhiteBlue]

In my view it would mean the collaps of the FIA in terms of sporting governement. The lack of income from F1 (25 mil anually) will have a severe effect on their capability to operate.



It is interesting to read pitpass on the issue of alternative trademarks GP1 and GP2 which have been held by FOM for some time in case of an emergency like this.

Readers with knowledge of the German language should read this AMS article Auto motor and sport provide background info on the Mosley sting and that the MI5 husband of Mistress switch was seen on the other video instructing her how to trap Mosley.

This is now turning into a full blown showdown between Max and Bernie. It becomes more and more unlikely that anybody but Ecclestone has set up the sting. This could have an impact on the position of BMW who have said right from the begin that it was unacceptable to set up Mosley.

AMS continue with the explanation of the motive why Bernie put the sting on Max. He is reportedly under pressure from CVC to provide an exit strategy from the investment. this will not be possible as long as the FIA has the Change of Control clause and is blocking a concord agreement. FIA can withhold the concord as a leverage to roll back the 100 years agreement which was a very foolish thing to do in the first place.

[Ogami musashi]

I think this is both a mean of pressure and a real possibility.

It makes years teams prepare for a new F1, and we're at a crucial time for F1 future.

It seems there're really matter for that, but will it happen? anyway that is a good thing because it will force FIA to re-think a bit the plans.

Now let's see what happens.

[WhiteBlue]

Bernie is going out on a limb and exposing himself to some extend with this move. He is apparently already under pressure from CVC to provide an exit strategy. If Mosley can hang the sting operation on him he would become untenable pretty quickly to CVC.

It really depends on having the manufacturers firmly in his corner. if his machinations push a significant force like Ferrari and BMW away this could become very messy. The last thing F1 needs is a split like Champ Car and Indy.

I will provide a quick translation of the relevant part of the AMS article:

Die mit der Aufklärung des Falles beauftragte Detektei Quest hat mittlerweile ein zweites Video sichergestellt, auf dem zu erkennen ist, wie eine der Prostituierten vorab instruiert wurde. Sie sollte Mosley in Szenen zu verwickeln, die man später als Nazi-Verherrlichung deuten kann. Es war eindeutig das Machwerk von Profis. Die mit der Spezialkamera ausgerüstete Prostituierte ist die Frau eines ehemaligen MI 5-Agenten, der Spezialist für Observierungen ist.

Dieser hatte zunächst angegeben, von der Sache erst hinterher erfahren zu haben und nicht in den Fall verwickelt gewesen zu sein. Auf dem besagten zweiten Video ist jedoch zu hören, dass der angeblich unbeteiligte Ex-Agent seiner Frau Anweisungen gibt, wie sie die Kamera, mit der Mosley gefilmt wurde, zu installieren hat. Mosley erhofft sich von der Enttarnung der Hintermänner eine Rehabilitierung. Und vielleicht bringt die Aufklärung auch ein ganz neues Licht in den Kampf um die Vorherrschaft in der Formel 1.

Translation of AMS text:

Quest, the firm comissioned with investigating the case (by Mosley) have secured a further video in the meantime showing how one of the prostitutes is receiving preparatory instructons. She is supposed to involve Mosley in scenes that can be later interpreted as Nazi appreciation. This are undoubtedly seedy manipulations of professionals. The prostitute operating the mini camera is the wife of the ex-MI5 agent who is specialised in observations. he has asserted that he only became aware of the operation when it was over and that he wasn't involved. On said second video the supposedly uninvolved ex-agent can be overheared giving his wife instructions how to install the camera used to film Mosley. Mosley hopes to rehabilitate himself by exposing the initiators of the sting. Perhaps these relevations cast completely new light on the fight for power in Formula 1.

[ben_watkins]

If this further video exists and is how it has been described then how did Max get hold of it?

One must speculate thus:

From Max's very early comments when the story broke, he said he had been told by a source close to the security services that he had been targeted in a covert investigation of his private life “by a group specialising in such things for reasons and clients as yet unknown”.

Someone high up in Mi5 must have leaked him the alegdged sting set up video and maybe has info on who set the sting up using the MI5 man and his wife acting as one of the hookers!

Perhaps he thinks if Bernie tries to take him down, he'll drag him and the FIA down with him!

[donskar]

First, I have been following F1 since the 1960s. I love the sport.

Having said that, I like the potential of what is happening. At least, this may throw a little cold water in the face of those who have been (mis)managing F1 behind the scenes and at the highest levels. It MIGHT put a bit more power into the hands of the people who provide the heart of F1: drivers, teams, manufacturers, sponsors.

For too long, the primary focus of F1 has been politics, money, arcane rules, scandal, and pettiness of all sorts. NOT racing, competition, or sport.

I know I'm being a bit naive, but this old-timer does not think a "clean sheet of paper" approach to a new F1 could possibly be any worse than what we have now.

At first glance it seems the teams and manufacturers are leaning toward Bernie. Sponsors will follow the racing, because the crowds certainly will. And there are plenty of courses available (some of which Bernie owns or controls).

It is POSSIBLE. Now let's see what unfolds.

On a side note, conspiracy theorists will have a field day, but let's remember: Max has never denied his indiscretion. He never claimed that an impersonator was used and that he was not in the film. He has never said he was drugged or forced in any way to do what he did. He played with matches in a gunpowder factory, and he got the inescapable result he deserved.

[Conceptual]

WOW.

This could be the greatest thing ever, or the worst thing ever.

It is all going to come down to who is in charge and making the rules. I know that Bernie will have the tracks lined up, and probably goto a 24 race calendar.

If the FOM breaks away, the teams will need incentive to follow. That will require more power for the teams, and quite possibly a race in the US for marketing.

Just like the IndyCart merger... The potential is enormous. It all comes down to planning and execution.

I nominate the name "Uber Formula" for the new series. I think that would be sweet!

Chris

[WhiteBlue]

it looks like Toyota are critical of this.
Howett mentioned a tripartite agreement and remarked on Autosport:

Howett played down rumours of a breakaway championship being put together, even though some teams are considering all options at the moment in light of the situation between Ecclestone and Mosley.

When asked if the breakaway talk was genuine, Howett said: "I don't really think so. Some people mentioned that, but it was part of the general rabble of discussion. The general view is not. I think we just have to consolidate a Concorde."

Howett suggested that if matters reached a head and some teams considered a breakaway championship, Toyota would be unlikely to join.

"I think when you look from the outside at people who have broken away, it doesn't work. The successful series are those where the manufacturers remain and there is one series.

"As soon as you divide, then both series suffer. We need to consolidate the previous Concorde Agreement in a modern, clean and fresh way."

At total-motorsport.com it was reported that teams are split over potential tech rules with KERS being one of the more controversial issues. Ecclestone told TMC:

Wir arbeiten an einem Concorde-Agreement. Wenn es um das Technische Reglement geht, machen mich die Teams verrückt . Translation: We are working on a new concord agreement. Regarding technical regulations the teams are driving me crazy.

So the break away could quickly become a split and not a move fully supported by all teams and manufacturers.

[Scotracer]

WOW.

This could be the greatest thing ever, or the worst thing ever.

It is all going to come down to who is in charge and making the rules. I know that Bernie will have the tracks lined up, and probably goto a 24 race calendar.

If the FOM breaks away, the teams will need incentive to follow. That will require more power for the teams, and quite possibly a race in the US for marketing.

Just like the IndyCart merger... The potential is enormous. It all comes down to planning and execution.

I nominate the name "Uber Formula" for the new series. I think that would be sweet!

Chris

What a name!

I am more than happy with the name GP1...but I don't know how much it'll effect the global perspective of the sport. F1 means the top and has done for 50 years. I will still follow the sport dearly but for some reason, the name change alone has me at two minds over the whole thing.

What I hope for more than anything is a change in the technical regulations, either way this turns out.

[WhiteBlue]

It took Joe Saward a long time to comment on this issue but it is well worth the effort to read it at grandprix.com . The main issue here is the capability of the FIA to hit back at licensees if they brake away and fail to have all assets and resources firmly locked into the scheme.

The FIA is a strong body. It has won legal recognition over a 100-year period and enjoys consultative status with the United Nations and the Council of Europe. In short, the FIA can run motor racing - a small part of its activities - as it pleases. There can be outlaw championships but these must be completely independent. The FIA issues licences for drivers, teams, circuits, stewards, scrutineers, marshals and medical and any FIA licensee involved in a rebel championships could be sanctioned it the events did not meet FIA standards.

so this thing is going to fail unless Bernie can get 95% of the manufacturers, teams and circuits behind himself. this is going to be a titanic job. it can be done but I doubt that at his age and in a position of executive and not the owner of the CRH he can pull it off.

[nae]

WOW indeed

Bernie is holding a fairly good hand on this one
he controls the money and thus a lot of the players
will simply follow that

if he has Ferrari on board as is suggested then his
hand is stronger still

I watch F1 for the racing as i am sure most of the viewers do
so if he can carry on providing good racing it stands a chance

i await the outcome with interest

loads to talk about for the next few months ill bet

[WhiteBlue]

denial

Ecclestone dismisses talk of breakaway series
07/06/2008 - 20:23:39
Formula One commercial rights holder Bernie Ecclestone has dismissed talk of a breakaway championship in the sport.

With the current wave of outrage over the continuing presence of Max Mosley as president of governing body FIA, Ecclestone was reported to have taken part in discussions to explore the possibility of starting a new championship outside the FIA’s jurisdiction.

Speculation about a breakaway intensified today ahead of Canadian Grand Prix qualifying as team principals met with Ecclestone for the second time this weekend.

The Formula One chief, however, denied a parting of the ways with the FIA had been on the agenda and revealed the team bosses had been discussing a new Concorde agreement, a contract between the teams, Ecclestone’s Formula One Management and the FIA which sets out the guidelines under which the sport is run.

“Nobody has discussed a breakaway series,” Ecclestone said as he made an unscheduled visit to the Grand Prix media centre at Circuit Gilles Villeneuve.

“We have been discussing what we are putting in a Concorde Agreement, which we have spent two years trying to get signed.”

Mosley is known to be talking tough on the terms of the new Concorde Agreement while Ecclestone said the teams were divided at present.

“I think Max would really like a Concorde Agreement a little more suited to the FIA while the teams are against each other,” said Ecclestone.

“One wants a wind tunnel, others don’t want wind tunnels, some want half a wind tunnel, that’s how it is. Been like it forever.”

Ecclestone rejected an alternative governing body to sanction regulations adding: “There wouldn’t be any difference, they’d still be arguing amongst the teams about what they want.”

He said a new Concorde Agreement was vital to keeping sponsors on board in the sport, particularly as the Mosley controversy looked set to remain in the wake of his successful vote of confidence from FIA member organisations last week.

“The sponsors need stability,” Ecclestone said. “This has been an emergency for two years. Teams are in this championship and they have no ideas what the rules are.”

Asked how long it would take to reach an agreement, Ecclestone joked: “Two or three days – if we all agree.”

Yet he added there may be signs of progress following Friday night and Saturday’s meetings.

“I think today we’ve got to the position where everybody needs to give a little bit.”

Asked if the team principals were beginning to reach an understanding, he added: “Yes.”

[nae]

seems the new trend for F1 is to say something then deny it

so in that spirit i didnt post what i said above or i meant something else

[donskar]

What post? I didn't see any post.

If I did, it was planted and illegitimate. And besides, it isn't illegal.