Teenagers should have a zero alcohol limit when driving..

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Should teenage drivers have a zero blood-alcohol limit by law?

Yes
7
70%
No
3
30%
 
Total votes: 10

roost89
roost89
0
Joined: 10 Apr 2008, 19:34
Location: Highlands, Scotland

Teenagers should have a zero alcohol limit when driving..

Post

I was reading this: http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArtic ... rs/233886/
I was wanting to know what you thought about teenagers, that are driving, having a zero blood alcohol limit?
Also do you think the limit should be zero for all drivers?

Currently, in the UK, the blood-alcohol limit is 0.08%
"It could be done manually. It would take quite a while, but it could be done. There is however a much more efficient and accurate way of getting the data. Men with lasers." Wing Commander Andy Green

nae
nae
0
Joined: 29 Mar 2006, 00:56

Re: Teenagers should have a zero alcohol limit when driving..

Post

Not really the forum for this sort of discussion

zero is not a wise idea as many products contain alcohol
mouth wash for example,

look at the source of the statement , the head of the BMA

it is his job to say such things without providing data to support it

those that drink and drive and then cause accidents rarely are anywhere near the limit anyway and there is no proof that moving the limit would make those that drink and drive stop. it would however allow the moralists to shout louder and seem more moral.

if young people are over represented in the accident data then perhaps teach them to drive better? just a thought
..?

Belatti
Belatti
33
Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Teenagers should have a zero alcohol limit when driving..

Post

I would hate if they take away my car and license because I ate a liqor chocolate.

Anyway, there are some driving techniques to avoid stoping when they are controlling drunks, they only work if you are sure you have 0 blood alcohol and you want to save the time that cost stopping for the control, but I wont tell any of those as it is a bad example to follow :)

Teenagers should have good driving teachers.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

DaveKillens
DaveKillens
34
Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

Re: Teenagers should have a zero alcohol limit when driving..

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Laws have to make sense. And to me, for a teenager this does not make sense. A teen practicing good sense drinks, just one beer because he wants to have an uneventful evening. But if one beer is suddenly intolerable in the eyes of the law, hey, may as well get good and blotto.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

axle
axle
3
Joined: 22 Jun 2004, 14:45
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Teenagers should have a zero alcohol limit when driving..

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Any law shouldn't just apply to teenagers. *If* there is a case for zero tolerance then it should be applied to everyone.
- Axle

User avatar
Ciro Pabón
106
Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: Teenagers should have a zero alcohol limit when driving..

Post

There are three studies I know about accidents vs changing alcohol limits.

First, Denmark moved its limit from 0.08% to 0.05%. The result goes against the idea posted:

http://www.beerandhealth.be/index.php/a ... 4/aid=629/

People drank less and crashed more. The changes were slight.

On the other hand, our canadian friends have used the measure for over 10 years. The crashes diminished 19% the first year.

Thirdly, Ozzies did the same as Denmark. They got the same mixed (unchanged, essentially) results: the percentage of drunk drivers involved in accidents stayed the same.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/MIS ... /s15p3.htm

Of course, the UK limit is really high (I think is among the higher in Europe). It's higher than the one we have down here (0.05).

I wonder why people could wish to drink and drive. C'mon, guys, give the keys to a friend that does not drink. The problem is not the ticket: many jurisdictions will put you in jail if you kill someone involuntarily while drunk. I think you get like 7 years of jail, tops, in US. Many young people is unaware of that.

I have been behind a campaign in Colombia to make responsible the people that sell you the drinks. That is, if you drink at a bar and you crash, you could show the receipt to force the owner of the restaurant to share the costs of the accident (not the penal responsabilities... yet).

This way, restaurant owners would be forced to call the police if you want to drive your car from the parking lot after drinking more than the legal limit. I wonder if I'll see it working some day. I think that it goes to the root of the problem. Yes, yes, I know people can get drunk anywhere, but there you could have another, more effective deterrant.

You know me: I'm the kind of guy that think that cars that can go beyond the national speed limit should be forbidden, or, if allowed, the manufacturers should be responsible for the financial costs of accidents caused by overspeeding.

I also like nae idea: how about making karting a sport you can practice during high school? I've proposed here one thousand times that karting alumni should receive their license a few years before the rest of the people, or better yet, a FIA license should be a valid proof of your ability to drive, so you could skip most of the driver tests. I still remember when Alonso got his driver license when he was 18: he couldn't drive over 80 kph... C'mon. :D

Besides, driver tests are a waste of time, unless you make them more strict: every person that crashes, has passed them.

I know all this sounds like "The Man" in action, but the figures for car deaths are horrible. We, above all the people, should be repelled by them and we should be squeezing our brains about it, instead of wondering if the new winglet of a particular F1 car is effective or if Hamilton is a good driver.

Yes, I know you're young, wild, free and against the rules, etc. I'm not young, but I like to think of myself like that. Anyway, the welfare of the many is above the welfare of one.
Ciro

Belatti
Belatti
33
Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Teenagers should have a zero alcohol limit when driving..

Post

Ciro Pabón wrote: You know me: I'm the kind of guy that think that cars that can go beyond the national speed limit should be forbidden, or, if allowed, the manufacturers should be responsible for the financial costs of accidents caused by overspeeding.
Now that makes sense. I would probably move to a country where there are roads with no limit :lol: (Germany?) but after all, Ciro is right, a 1 Liter car reaches 150kph, way beyond the 130kph limit in the feeway here, so why do we have 3.0L V6 that reaches 240kph?
Ciro Pabón wrote:Besides, driver tests are a waste of time, unless you make them more strict: every person that crashes, has passed them.
The only driving test I did in my little town the time I got my license (1998) was a parking one. That shows how irresponsible we were over here (including me who did nothing to revert this). Cause its obvious I would not only drive in a little town :?

We lack of a national license database, so here you can basically loose your license cause killing someone and go to the county next door and got a new one. #-o

Only in big cities you have a little theory course and a "proper" practical test, not too effective if you ask me.

And thats how life goes in Argentinian streets... fortunately I have never ever scratched the cars I have driven, eventhough I don´t respect many many traffic rules (you know, stopping in a red light at 12 oclock in the night can leave you pink slips or even transform you in a corpse over here :( )
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

mariof1
mariof1
0
Joined: 10 Feb 2008, 18:04

Re: Teenagers should have a zero alcohol limit when driving..

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Recently here in Brazil blood-alchool limit was reduced to zero regardless of age. Accidents and accident-related death rates dropped more than 50% in some States within a few weeks of law enforcement. This just can't be a coincidence.

mx_tifoso
mx_tifoso
0
Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 05:01
Location: North America

Re: Teenagers should have a zero alcohol limit when driving..

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Ciro Pabón wrote: You know me: I'm the kind of guy that think that cars that can go beyond the national speed limit should be forbidden, or, if allowed, the manufacturers should be responsible for the financial costs of accidents caused by overspeeding.
Yeah, well you're thinking is not logical for the manufacturers. They only design and produce high speed capable vehicles, but it is the decision of the consumer, most likely the driver, to drive over the speed limits. Thus placing legal or finacial responsibility on the manufacturer is not right, they play no part in the actual law breaking situation.

Besides, speed limits vary greatly throughout the world, they are not going to design a sports car with low speed capalities just for the countries with relatively low speed limits. Highways in my state go up to 75mph in low/no populated areas, but cross the border into Mexico and speed limits on highways are a low 80kph, roughly 50mph. Vehicles have to be designed for many different conditions and laws. If you're the driver and you f*ck up, thats your fault, therefore you should face the consequences.

Regarding the actual topic of the thread; no doubt that people under the legal drinking age should be subjected to zero-tolerance alcohol laws when driving. In the U.S. the legal drinking age is 21+, if you are under age and caught drinking and driving, their is no flexibility what so ever. And thats how it should be IMO. And I'm not being a hypocrit, since I haven't drank here in the states for a couple years now, and when I did I was either at home or a a friends house drinking a few beers, no where near my truck.

How would a 'zero alcohol tolerance for everyone' law affect businesses in the area? Surely it would, because not everyone takes a designated driver. There is a smoking ban in public places here in my area, and that really affected businesses for sure.
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User avatar
Ciro Pabón
106
Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: Teenagers should have a zero alcohol limit when driving..

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Well, mx_tifosi, I don't want to go out of thread, you're right in that it's people responsability, true, but that's applicable to anything. Would you say the same of, I don't know, any other product that can be misused by the user? Anyway, I won't argue about legal responsability, it won't take us far.

Please, think about it this way, even if only for a minute:

What about a computer that explodes when the user press Ctrl-Alt-1, for example? Even if clearly labeled ("Warning! Do not press Ctrl-Alt-1!"), I ask myself: is that truly good engineering? Specially when it kills more people than firearms, as is the case of cars. I know that in the US that kind of computer would be the delight of class-action lawyers, and, certainly, not the one most sold. :)

It seems simpler to manufacture a car that does not start when its driver is drunk than, I don't know, a car with active suspension. Same goes for the speed limit compared with the gadgets invented to go over the speed limit.

For example, most countries (at least mine) have a system for recording speeds of commercial vehicles, mandatory. Last time I checked, commercial vehicles had far smaller accident rates than teenagers.

The root of the problem is that people like to overspeed and to drink. Sure we can make cars that deny you those "pleasures" on public roads. I bet that manufacturers think that if they take away that component from the cars, then their sales would go down.

When you become "less young", some people, like me, end with the idea that a car, for some teenagers, more than transportation, is a way to party and race with friends. Where do I get those crazy ideas? :)

I dare to think that automakers have a similar idea, because the shapes and speeds of those cars, oriented toward a younger audience, seem to go along with it, since immemorial times. I'll sum it up like this: "impress the chicks and overtake your friends". If they are aware of that, then they have some share in the responsability for the deaths that are happening right this minute.

That, or they're stupid guys that think that they contribute more to the world by making a seat with 120 positions than a car that checks your alcohol level in a tamper proof way. Both things are perfectly doable. Of course, if I had 18 years agan, I would go with the 120 positions seat... :) Now, at 48, if I could buy one of these "no alcohol sensor" cars for my daughter, I would be happy.

Sigh, rereading what I wrote, I think that anyway you're right: I have become "The Man"... ;)
Ciro

modbaraban
modbaraban
0
Joined: 05 Apr 2007, 17:44
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: Teenagers should have a zero alcohol limit when driving..

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axle wrote:Any law shouldn't just apply to teenagers. *If* there is a case for zero tolerance then it should be applied to everyone.
In Ukraine the limit is nearly zero. Same for everyone regardless the age. I don't know what the actual limit % is, but all I know is that you can have a liquor chocolate but can't have a beer.

Talking bout speed limits, I heard of some intentions or plans of Japanese (I think :? ) polititians to impose laws that would make car manufacturers equip all their cars with some sort of gps-based microchip that would allow speeding only on authorized racetracks or outside Japan :shock:

Oh, well since this thread is becoming a bit too sane...

these guys don't drink for religious reasons and that's what happened!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWyzeGWzJ-k[/youtube]

:lol:

nae
nae
0
Joined: 29 Mar 2006, 00:56

Re: Teenagers should have a zero alcohol limit when driving..

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as feared this thread has descended in to a case of the

'wouldn't it be good if only'

there are already laws in place that remain only partially enforced

and its that partial enforcement that is the problem
decreasing the limit and / or increasing the punishment
will not increase the partial enforcement

the whole idea relies on wishful thinking, that is if we reduce /increase
then more people will not do it. when in reality those that do drink drive
do so in a manor beyond the current safety threshold anyway.

lowering a limit might result in catching more people over that limit but it wont
decrease the accidents caused by the current level of drink drivers, nor will it
reduce them as they already disregard the limits in force.
..?

nae
nae
0
Joined: 29 Mar 2006, 00:56

Re: Teenagers should have a zero alcohol limit when driving..

Post

further to that

that vast majority of drink drivers never get stopped

reducing the limit or increasing the punishment wont
suddenly make them get stopped more
..?

roost89
roost89
0
Joined: 10 Apr 2008, 19:34
Location: Highlands, Scotland

Re: Teenagers should have a zero alcohol limit when driving..

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nae wrote:further to that

that vast majority of drink drivers never get stopped

reducing the limit or increasing the punishment wont
suddenly make them get stopped more
That's true but it may act as more of a detterent to stop them drinking as much or drinking at all.
The campaigns against drink-driving work to some degree, as I know of people having a designated driver or calling a taxi prior to going out that arrives at a specific time to pick the party-goers up.

Saying that, it'll be alot easier when we have one of these:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rJ7RL52Now[/youtube]
"It could be done manually. It would take quite a while, but it could be done. There is however a much more efficient and accurate way of getting the data. Men with lasers." Wing Commander Andy Green