"Defensive Driving" on radar infested roads

[gcdugas]

OK, this is more "technical" than the thread on which car we all drive.

I am asking what kind of radar defense you all use. And as an international audience, please be mindful when discussing particulars that may not be applicable in other areas.

I have just a simple Valentine-1. I can't see living without the arrows and it radar sensitivity is tops.

A side question to the techies out there would be: Radar jamming....

I wouldn't want a full time "always on" jammer broadcasting at several known frequencies even if it worked flawlessly. It would always confuse and slow down mt fellow speeders unnecessarily and unethically interfere with their "rights" as speeders. But I was wondering if one could rig a "instant response" broadcast to whatever frequency is detected by my V1. These could be broadcast from those silly little "parking impact detectors" that use very low amp radar. That way it would be hidden and I would never miss the dopey parking feature anyway. Several questions arise... would the V1 detect the signal that it just prompted thus sending it into an endless "feedback" loop? Is it possible to send out a false signal such as would cause the police radar to register that I am going say, 50%, of my actual speed? Or would it be best to just jam it so that it "does not compute"? I know that all such "broadcasting on frequencies" is highly illegal but is it achievable nonetheless? And lastly, how much would such a system cost?

OK techies, the challenge has been made. Let's hear what you got as well as what can be done outside of conventional means.

[rjsa]

A side question to the techies out there would be: Radar jamming....

I wouldn't want a full time "always on" jammer broadcasting at several known frequencies even if it worked flawlessly. It would always confuse and slow down mt fellow speeders unnecessarily and unethically interfere with their "rights" as speeders. But I was wondering if one could rig a "instant response" broadcast to whatever frequency is detected by my V1. These could be broadcast from those silly little "parking impact detectors" that use very low amp radar. That way it would be hidden and I would never miss the dopey parking feature anyway. Several questions arise... would the V1 detect the signal that it just prompted thus sending it into an endless "feedback" loop? Is it possible to send out a false signal such as would cause the police radar to register that I am going say, 50%, of my actual speed? Or would it be best to just jam it so that it "does not compute"? I know that all such "broadcasting on frequencies" is highly illegal but is it achievable nonetheless? And lastly, how much would such a system cost?

This must be completelly ilegal... I don't live in the U.S., but I remmember reading in many devices that FCC compliance label stating something like:

Code: Select all

THIS DEVICE COMPLIES WITH PART 15 OF THE FCC RULES. OPERATION IS SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING TWO CONDITIONS:
(1) THIS DEVICE MAY NOT CAUSE HARMFUL INTERFERENCE, AND
(2) THIS DEVICE MUST ACCEPT ANY INTERFERENCE, RECEIVED, INCLUDING INTERFERENCE THAT MAY CAUSE UNDESIRED OPERATION.

I think the EU rulling should read the same.

EDIT: BTW, atemping this would put someone in serious trouble, much worse than speeding tickets.

[gcdugas]

This must be completelly ilegal... I don't live in the U.S., but I remmember reading in many devices that FCC compliance label stating something like:

Code: Select all

THIS DEVICE COMPLIES WITH PART 15 OF THE FCC RULES. OPERATION IS SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING TWO CONDITIONS:
(1) THIS DEVICE MAY NOT CAUSE HARMFUL INTERFERENCE, AND
(2) THIS DEVICE MUST ACCEPT ANY INTERFERENCE, RECEIVED, INCLUDING INTERFERENCE THAT MAY CAUSE UNDESIRED OPERATION.

I think the EU rulling should read the same.

EDIT: BTW, atemping this would put someone in serious trouble, much worse than speeding tickets.

Well let's just have a "theoretical" conversation then. Include details etc. Its just like all our other conversations. How many of us are ever going to test something on an F1 car in a wind tunnel? We just talk "in theory". So let's talk "in theory" about radar, lidar, detecting, jamming, etc.

[Belatti]

The ones who read my posts regarding traffic safety here in Argetina, may suspect that you just don´t need a radar. Full throttle my man! Only another car´s trunk or a barrier can stop you if that is what you want!
Maybe I´m still alive because I don´t have money and so I have a crappy car. Shame on me! (not being sarcastic here, temperamental character sucks in streets)

My record: 26 years, 10 driving (2 illegally) fast like hell. Never a single scratch in all the cars I have driven. The secret? Know the road (usual traffic, ground conditions, run off areas, etc) before pushing hard, do a careful car maintenance, check car conditions always, know your car and your limits, don´t go off them in public streets, for that go to a race track!

My wish: follow green advices, not reds. Save fuel. Drive friendly.

[Saribro]

I beat the radars by not breaking the law...

[modbaraban]

In Ukraine there's some sort of unwritten road code of solidarity. The drivers that come in the other direction blip the headlights in case there is traffic police on your way so that you can slow down in advance. Is that done in other countries?

[rjsa]

In Ukraine there's some sort of unwritten road code of solidarity. The drivers that come in the other direction blip the headlights in case there is traffic police on your way so that you can slow down in advance. Is that done in other countries?

Same here in Brazil.

[WhiteBlue]

In Germany it is very foolish to rely on radar. Many speed traps work with inductive devices in the road. The best strategy is to drive max 20 km over the limit using cruise control. If you go over that limit you will not enjoy your license for very long. The upside is that you can travel on some streches of the Autobahn as fast as you like when traffic conditions allow this which is mainly by night.

[Belatti]

I beat the radars by not breaking the law...

And how do you beat your speed thirst? Are F1 simulators enough? Are you a racing driver?

[Saribro]

In Ukraine there's some sort of unwritten road code of solidarity. The drivers that come in the other direction blip the headlights in case there is traffic police on your way so that you can slow down in advance. Is that done in other countries?

Same here in Brazil.

Dito for Belgium. Some radio-stations also have a "flash service", where people can send an SMS to the station where they know a mobile patrol is currently positioned, and it gets broadcast across the nation (comes with it's own announcing-tune and everyting :D).

[gcdugas]

I beat the radars by not breaking the law...

I didn't know the Pope was a member of this forum. The trouble in the US is that speeding laws are used to bleed $$$ from the people. The limits are unreasonably low. There are many, many highways where you could land a 747 and the limit is 65 Mph (105 Kph).

Warning other drivers.... well this shows that the people see nothing wrong with speeding. They see it not as a moral transgression but rather as an intrusion by the gov't into their liberties. SMS, detectors, flashing headlamps etc. are just some of the countermeasures that people use to get around it. I am not dealing with the ethics of speeding. Once we agree that decent people of all lands use countermeasures, we have effectively agreed that moral transgression is lacking and that gov't oppression/taxation/shakedown is involved.

My aim was to have a technical discussion with some brethren who have electronic expertise that addresses the issues and questions raised in my first post:

I wouldn't want a full time "always on" jammer broadcasting at several known frequencies even if it worked flawlessly. It would always confuse and slow down mt fellow speeders unnecessarily and unethically interfere with their "rights" as speeders. But I was wondering if one could rig a "instant response" broadcast to whatever frequency is detected by my V1. These could be broadcast from those silly little "parking impact detectors" (which are antennas) that use very low amp radar. That way it would be hidden and I would never miss the dopey parking feature anyway. Several questions arise... would the V1 detect the signal that it just prompted thus sending it into an endless "feedback" loop? Is it possible to send out a false signal such as would cause the police radar to register that I am going say, 50%, of my actual speed? Or would it be best to just jam it so that it "does not compute"? I know that all such "broadcasting on frequencies" is highly illegal but is it achievable nonetheless? And lastly, how much would such a system cost?

This is to be a "theoretical" discussion. Much like our aero discussions or discussions computer people have about copying music or videos. Neither are advocation doing anything illegal, we are just discussing how it is done.

[Belatti]

I beat the radars by not breaking the law...

I didn't know the Pope was a member of this forum. The trouble in the US is that speeding laws are used to bleed $$$ from the people. The limits are unreasonably low. There are many, many highways where you could land a 747 and the limit is 65 Mph (105 Kph).

Warning other drivers.... well this shows that the people see nothing wrong with speeding. They see it not as a moral transgression but rather as an intrusion by the gov't into their liberties...

Well, the pope rides a Ferrari



Or was this pope you where talking about...



The 65MPH limit is to save fuel, there is a chapter in Brian Beckman´s physics of racing that even compares 65MPH vs a 55MHP regarding power (and thus fuel) needed.

Appart from that, about your comment "people see nothing wrong with speeding", it is well stadistically proven that fatal accidents increase with speed. Here there is a long long thread for the ones who missed it and wanna discuss about speed and its consequences
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4419&hilit=+speeding

My aim was to have a technical discussion with some brethren who have electronic expertise that addresses the issues and questions raised in my first post:

Sorry we are all way out of topic.

[gcdugas]

The 65MPH limit is to save fuel, there is a chapter in Brian Beckman´s physics of racing that even compares 65MPH vs a 55MHP regarding power (and thus fuel) needed.

Appart from that, about your comment "people see nothing wrong with speeding", it is well stadistically proven that fatal accidents increase with speed. Here there is a long long thread for the ones who missed it and wanna discuss about speed and its consequences
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4419&hilit=+speeding

My aim was to have a technical discussion with some brethren who have electronic expertise that addresses the issues and questions raised in my first post:

Sorry we are all way out of topic.

I am sure that 35 Mph saves more fuel than 55 Mph and there are even less fatalities. Perhaps the nanny state should mandate this "for our own good".

I thought this was a site for men not compliant gov't slaves who allow the "ministry of information" to do their thinking for them. I sure hope you enjoy driving your Porsche or Ferrari 55 Mph. I was looking for real driving enthusiasts. Are there any out there? Maybe I should try a NASCAR site. Somehow I thought that F1 fans, with a technical bent no less, would be thinking how to circumvent things just as F1 engineers are always doing. Am I mistaken?

[mx_tifoso]

You are definately not mistaken in being here at F1T 'gcdugas'.

But, there are many aspects of driving that engineers in motorsport do not have to consider, that us as normal road drivers do. Those being, pedestrians, insurance expenses, property damage, licence, etc.

If you want to drive the hell out of your car, I would thank you very much if you took it to a track. But on roads please give it a try to stay at the legal limits, or at least not too far above.

Don't try to outsmart the authorities in this area, theres no point to that since it is their to protect us citizens.

Thats my opinion anyways. I always try to think about my little brother or the rest of my family when I am hauling *ss on the highway. I would definately not appreciate some dumbass doing 100 mph lose control and cause pain and suffering to them. So I keep it at or near the limit. Don't to others as you wouldn't like done to you.

[Belatti]

I am sure that 35 Mph saves more fuel than 55 Mph and there are even less fatalities. Perhaps the nanny state should mandate this "for our own good".

I thought this was a site for men not compliant gov't slaves who allow the "ministry of information" to do their thinking for them. I sure hope you enjoy driving your Porsche or Ferrari 55 Mph. I was looking for real driving enthusiasts. Are there any out there? Maybe I should try a NASCAR site. Somehow I thought that F1 fans, with a technical bent no less, would be thinking how to circumvent things just as F1 engineers are always doing. Am I mistaken?

Well sorry Macho Man!
Haven´t you read my previous posts?
I´ll bring them for you:
1

I beat the radars by not breaking the law...

And how do you beat your speed thirst? Are F1 simulators enough? Are you a racing driver?

2

The ones who read my posts regarding traffic safety here in Argetina, may suspect that you just don´t need a radar. Full throttle my man! Only another car´s trunk or a barrier can stop you if that is what you want!
Maybe I´m still alive because I don´t have money and so I have a crappy car.Shame on me! (not being sarcastic here, temperamental character sucks in streets)

My record: 26 years, 10 driving (2 illegally) fast like hell. Never a single scratch in all the cars I have driven. The secret? Know the road (usual traffic, ground conditions, run off areas, etc) before pushing hard, do a careful car maintenance, check car conditions always, know your car and your limits, don´t go off them in public streets, for that go to a race track!

So, my macho macho man, see that I DO SPEED, I careless about police and gov (mainly cause the country I live) but I´m not proud about it. My mind says "slow down, you can hurt someone innocent" (properly, as it should be) but my heart says "speed motherf***er"