Why open-wheel racing?

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xpensive
xpensive
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
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Why open-wheel racing?

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An friend of mine, with effectively zero interest in F1, asked the other day why in the world the F1 cars had open wheels. Thinking about it, if F1 is supposed to have some sort of road-car relationship, why not meke a shift to LMS-style bodies?

Obvious advantages would be far less first-corner accidents, less need for aerodynamic hocus-pocus, and plenty more area for sponsorship, downsides?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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Keir
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Joined: 09 Feb 2007, 21:16

Re: Why open-wheel racing?

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I think safety is a consideration.
Without the drag caused by the open wheels the speeds reached would be ridiculous and as was seen in the 1999 Le Mans 24 hours with the Mercedes the aerodynamics can be .... challenging.

xpensive
xpensive
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
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Re: Why open-wheel racing?

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Obviously, drag has to be balanced with power, but how many Hp has Audi's Le Mans car anyway?
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Scotracer
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Re: Why open-wheel racing?

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xpensive wrote:Obviously, drag has to be balanced with power, but how many Hp has Audi's Le Mans car anyway?
The R10 and 908 HDi are around 700BHP and have top speeds at Le Mans of around 205mph (10 less than F1 at Monza, with 750BHP).

I have been arguing the continued support of open-wheels for a long time. I really fail to see any advantages apart from tradition. Back in the 50's there were a couple of closed-wheel cars that ran along with the open-wheel counterparts but they were banned after a while.

Bringing in closed chassis styles would be very beneficial for environmental image of F1 (the drag of an F1 car is quite absurd) where they could get the same performance from a lot less power. F1 cars have a coefficient of drag ranging between 0.7 and 1.1 (the rotating wheels put the coefficient over 1.0) whereas a typical road car is around 0.3-0.4. Halfing the drag produced by the car at the same speed would then require much less power, i.e. a more efficient, smaller engine.
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Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

Re: Why open-wheel racing?

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Open wheeler have many advantages.

For a given weight they have better load transfert behavior, tyres are more expoited, better cooling, lower moment of inertia and as far as drag is concerned open wheeler have the advantage of having a total drag not changing too much with wings in the contrary of LMPs that see their drag rise like hell when they want downforce.

You'd be surprised to see that drag levels for recent F1 cars are not that far away from LMPs. Of course LMP offer a slightly better drag ratio that's for sure.


But i think it is simply tradition.

Surely the best cars would be an hybrid.

xpensive
xpensive
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
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Re: Why open-wheel racing?

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If I put it this way O-m, if FIA introduced a body-wise "Formula libre", still with flat underbodies between wheel-centers, how do you figure the winning design whould look, still open-wheels?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

Re: Why open-wheel racing?

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I think let's take a modern F1 car (but with low sidepods) and take a Group C allard J2X like car.

Both are limited by the necessity of having wheels exposed the other to have wheels and suspension hidden.

So i think an hybrid would have a similar front section to an lmp, the body (with a canopy) the F1 car and rear wheels would be or not be hidden (because the front one drag the most).

The rear wing would a large one extending high and far aft of the body.

The front assembly would be a front wing, because front splitters do not provide as much downforce as needed (peugeot was struggling this year on high downforce tracks to have enough downforce at the front).


But i think there would be many different designs efficient that would look very different..

Back to reality and the 2009-2013 regulations..

Belatti
Belatti
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
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Re: Why open-wheel racing?

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Maybe the Caparo T1 is a good example...

Image

Front wing, covered wheels, rear wing, low sidepods.

Image
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Carlos
Carlos
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Re: Why open-wheel racing?

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Why open wheel racing? Because a man is surrounded by the absolute least physical encumberance possible, offering the speed and nimble ability to act as a predator, mechanically enabled beyond any human capability to stalk another and by asserting superiority, out distancing another predator, to achieve the acceptable victory of position - to win. Thats why :D

xpensive
xpensive
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
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Re: Why open-wheel racing?

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But seriously, I agree completely with Scotracer on the technical side, open-wheel racing makes very little technical sense today.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

jamsbong
jamsbong
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Joined: 13 May 2007, 05:00

Re: Why open-wheel racing?

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Open wheels behave totally different from other sports car because the weight is concentrated at the middle with long extensions to the wheels, like a spider.

The Audi R10 is faster and more powerful but compare that with F1, F1 engines are smaller and car is lighter and manage to achieve similar performance (although NOT as enduring). F1 can usually corner a lot faster than other cars.

Open wheel cars are very very nimble, that is why F1 is still here.

If you judge performance from Max speed and acceleration in straight line, then a drag race car is for you. Being nimble around corners is the point of openwheel racing.

xpensive
xpensive
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
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Re: Why open-wheel racing?

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Possibly we have an element of misunderstanding here, reason for this topic was, at least primarily, to hear the arguments why the pinnacle of motorsport should be for open-wheelers.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

Ogami musashi
Ogami musashi
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Joined: 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

Re: Why open-wheel racing?

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As i said earlier, IMHO part of it is traditionalism but indeed open wheelers are very often the fastest cars around a track, thus that's why F1 is about open wheelers.

Now hybrids would surely be faster and we could say that it would be more relevant, but in any case, it is relevant to racing; not road technology.

kekekeke
kekekeke
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Joined: 10 May 2008, 07:17

Re: Why open-wheel racing?

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cars are only quick as the regulations allow. just because f1 cars are the quickest doesn't mean open wheel cars are superior to closed ones.

rjsa
rjsa
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 03:01

Re: Why open-wheel racing?

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xpensive wrote:Possibly we have an element of misunderstanding here, reason for this topic was, at least primarily, to hear the arguments why the pinnacle of motorsport should be for open-wheelers.
The thing is that an open wheel racing category ended being called the pinnacle of motosport. Not that the pinnacle of motorsport decided to go open wheel.

I don't believe that today there is a single technical reason why it is so. But I can imagine that when wheel fairings where initially banned the aero advantage wouldn't be much bigger than the weight loss. If it was so everyone would be running closed bodies and no banning would have happened.