Moveable wing

[Crystalix]

I wanted to calculate the speed a driver can loose if he suddenly move his wings up to 6° (in a right part of the track of course), with the new regulations which allows it.

Lets say that if the angle of the moveable wing is 0°, it doesn't induce more drag that the all car.

Lets say that the moveable surfacis is 0.25*0.25m at both sides of the nose. So with a 6° camber, the total "inducing drag surface" is S = 2*0.25*0.25*sin(6) = 130cm^2

Drag force can be written as : Fd = A*S*v*v
where A is a constant, and v the speed of the car.

I know that a F1 frontal surfacis is near 1.5 m^2.

Lets say the driver's speed is v1 = 300km/h. When the driver put the wing higher he looses speed.

The problem is the same if we say that the total drag is the same in both cases and if we are just looking for the speed of the car speed with wing angle = 6°.

v1*v1*(1.5)=v2*v2*(1.5 + 0.013) according to the drag formula

and then v2=298.7 km/h

So if the driver put up the wing to the maximum, he'll loose less than 2km/h, according to my calculation !

I know I've made too much hypothesis... especially italic part^^ but I don't know how to do in an other way.

If someone can give me the right answer, or correct myself... thanks to him !!

PS : sorry for my bad english...

[DM0407]

What about how the change in angle would affect the airflow around the rest of the car?

I'm by no means good at math, but it seems like drag would increase/decrease at different areas of the car depending on how the front wing changes the flow of air. Your math seems spot on, but you still have unknown variables.

[Crystalix]

Yep that's true ! The airflow has now changed. But if you take the drag formula, you can see that (constants excepted) we have only two parameters to know : speed, and frontal surfacis. So normaly, for a basic answer, that won't change.

[ernos5]

well when the car is traveling at around 300km/h, from my basic knowledge the car would create around 1600kg of down force if i can remember correctly. Also i vaigly remember that the front wing in a formula 1 car produces around 40% of the car's down force, 40% of 1600kg is 640kg so the front wing alone would be carrying quite a heavy amount of aerodynamic grip, i think that by changing the angle of attack by 6 degrees will only affect 2km/h if false. I'd think it to be more around 30km/h ish



sorry if i sound like an idiot, it just doesn't seem like enough

[Conceptual]

I would say between 2-5kph will be the dropoff with the flap up. Remember, it isnt as if they are deploying a parachute... Overall, those flaps are already angled, and the 6 degrees is 3+ and 3-, so you will never reach 6+ degrees that you are calculating.

The best would be the front wing/sidepod coupling. If the wing all the way up caused more drag on the front wing, but helped drop the drag over the sidepod, it would not really be noticable.

I wouldn't even run it personally. The last thing that you would want on the track is to have one side fail, and have an off balance front end until the end of the race.

[Shaddock]

well when the car is traveling at around 300km/h, from my basic knowledge the car would create around 1600kg of down force if i can remember correctly. Also i vaigly remember that the front wing in a formula 1 car produces around 40% of the car's down force, 40% of 1600kg is 640kg so the front wing alone would be carrying quite a heavy amount of aerodynamic grip, i think that by changing the angle of attack by 6 degrees will only affect 2km/h if false. I'd think it to be more around 30km/h ish



sorry if i sound like an idiot, it just doesn't seem like enough

I read some where that downforce ratio's were 50% diffuser + bodywork 30% rear wing and 20% front wing.

[pgj]

Everyone is making the assumption that the wing will be used to increase downforce. I see nothing in the regs that states that the wing has to increase downforce, only that it has to move the full 6 degrees. This would allow the wing to be used to remove downforce.

[Conceptual]

Everyone is making the assumption that the wing will be used to increase downforce. I see nothing in the regs that states that the wing has to increase downforce, only that it has to move the full 6 degrees. This would allow the wing to be used to remove downforce.

I read that it will be +3/-3 degrees from where ever it starts, so technically, it could be used to increase downforce, or to reduce downforce.

[ackzsel]

Lift induced drag is also affected when you change the wing angle. So just calculating the extra drag from the larger frontal area doesn't cover all aspects I'm affraid.

I must say that I'm really interested in how much of an impact the change in wing angle affects the car's performance.

[Crystalix]

So I am ! Thank you everybody ! =D>

Another problem is, there won't be suddenly a loss of 2 km/h, and then a constant velocitie v2, but the car 'll loose km/h per km/h...

So I agree with you , especially with the fact that changing wing 'll modify airflow on the aft.

[kilcoo316]

I wanted to calculate the speed a driver can loose if he suddenly move his wings up to 6° (in a right part of the track of course), with the new regulations which allows it.

I honestly don't think you'll be able to calculate it from any analytical equations. There are a number of factors that a simple drag coefficient equation simply won't handle. Some are:

- Change in airflow around the endplate - how does this affect the front wheels? Sidepods? Diffuser?

- Change in airflow through the front suspension - how does this affect the sidepod, the radiators, the diffuser, the rear wing?

- Change in car setting angle - how does this affect the splitter, the diffuser, the rear wing?

[Roderik]

I think i am missing the point. You are calculating the speed for driving with a constant propelling force. What does that have to do with slowing down the car? I think you should look for the brake force for the car with his wings in 'neutral' position, and for the brake force for the car with his wings in upper position. By doing that you should be able to calculate the difference in deceleration, which I think will be very small.

[Crystalix]

I've just said : when the driver put the wing in upper position, he lost some speed.
The only way I've found to approximate it is to say : the problem is equivalent if we consider that the drag force is constant, and we focus on the difference of speed between two states : lower and upper position of the wing.

I think so. But Kilcoo is right : it is not possible to calculate it with a good precision.

[Nat]

I have a stupid question: When will the driver change the angle? One possibility is when following the other car. The OWG said they had to make the wing movable to get rid of extra downforce it gets in the wake. But what will be the other options, say in qualifying, when it is just a fast lap?

[kilcoo316]

I have a stupid question: When will the driver change the angle?

Probably only when following another car - its probably too risky to change it for each corner of a qualifying lap.