Kubica - Vettel incident

[De Jokke]

Nice battle which ended badly for both of them. From viewing the tv images I think it was a race incident but kubica was a bit to hasty to pass Vettel. He should have waited a little bit longer. However he didn't gave vettel any room to move...

[ced ampo]

Kubica was the driver at fault as he squeezed Vettel too much to the grass and did not leave any space for Vettel to drive. The worse part is not the points lost by both of them, especially Vettel, but Vettel was also penalized a 10 grid penalty and 10,000 Euros.

[djos]

Kubica didn't leave enuf room and caused the accident.

[De Jokke]

I agree the penalty is too harsh + barri didn't even get one for hitting raikkonen...

[jddh1]

Look at the sequence again. Kubica was clearly ahead coming into the corner even though Vettel had the inside line. Kubica did not have to wait, as well all know from his comments he wanted to take a run at catching Button. I think Vettel, knowing that he would've been passed anyway, should've have done the clever thing and let him pass and take the 6 pts.

[modbaraban]

Kubica didn't leave enuf room and caused the accident.

So who didn't leave enough room?
I hope you won't say that Kubica dragged Vettel's car to the left after crashing into him?

Vettel simply was too fast to hold on to the inside line and understeered into Kubica.

[djos]

Kubica didn't leave enuf room and caused the accident.

So who didn't leave enough room?
I hope you won't say that Kubica dragged Vettel's car to the left after crashing into him?

Vettel simply was too fast to hold on to the inside line and understeered into Kubica.

Are you blind, look at the first picture, vettel is squeezed right up on the curb and trying to turn right and Kubica is clearly cutting across the front of him! [-X

[noname]

He should have waited a little bit longer.

waiting for what ? racing is not about waiting. if you see the chance you are taking it.

[ben_watkins]

Vettel braked too early, lost the position, came off the brakes, too fast for his graining tyres, understeer, crash.

I was surprised at how strong the BMW front nose mounts are! They held the nose in place until just the right hand side had been mashed by Vettel's left hand front wheel.

Both then drove too fast after the incident and into the wall.

[modbaraban]

Are you blind, look at the first picture...

Maybe a little blind. But I can still see that there are 3 pictures. Would you care to explain how on earth Vettel's car is on the right side of the track on picture 3?

And, btw, the moment when cars collided is on picture 2 not 1. Vettel has some room on the right while Kubica's going towards the left curb.

[djos]

Are you blind, look at the first picture...

Maybe a little blind. But I can still see that there are 3 pictures. Would you care to explain how on earth Vettel's car is on the right side of the track on picture 3?

And, btw, the moment when cars collided is on picture 2 not 1. Vettel has some room on the right while Kubica's going towards the left curb.

Try watching the overhead video, in that you can clearly see Vettel sliding off the apex and Kubica trying to take a "normal" race line thru the corner without making allowances for Vettel being at the limits of adhesion.

Both are at fault but Kubica more than Vettel as he new Seb was struggling with his tires.

[Kester]

Having being gifted the opportuniy to try and overtake Vettel from Vettel understeering infront of Kubica on turn one, Kubica probably should have been more aware that Vettel was struggling for grip on those tyres, and left him more room incase he understeered through the corner.

[Spencifer_Murphy]

Are you blind, look at the first picture...

Maybe a little blind. But I can still see that there are 3 pictures. Would you care to explain how on earth Vettel's car is on the right side of the track on picture 3?

And, btw, the moment when cars collided is on picture 2 not 1. Vettel has some room on the right while Kubica's going towards the left curb.

Look at picture 3 closely, Vettel has a whole arm-full of steering lock applied, its not like he drove into Kubica. Yes they actualy collided in picture 2 but thats because in picture one Vettel is clearly being forced high up onto the inside Kerb, watch the video footage and you'll see after hitting the kerb Vettel understeered into Kubica.

In my opinion they're both at fault, but Kubica more so, he could have left so much room. Vettel STILL HAD THE POSITION when they approached the corner and lost it only under braking, once they're in the braking Zone they are committed to the corner, they can't just brake harder, they're already braking as hard as they can given their car & tyres etc.

If you look at the overhead replay shown during the race, at the apex point of the turn BOTH CARS were within the inside THIRD of the race track, Kubica had a whole TWO THIRDS of race track left to leave room. Frankly to say Kubica left enough room having seen that replay is just madness. As Martin Brundle put it:
"There's no point in squeezing a car that's committed to a braking zone, he'll just ed up driving into the side of you."

I'm sorry but having seen multiple angles of this incident many times I can only conclude that Kubica could have left more room. It would have done Kubica NO HARM to do so, so why didn't he. I see this as a racig incident but Kubica is to blame for it happening, becuase he made a mess of his overtaking manouvre.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Are you blind, look at the first picture...

Maybe a little blind. But I can still see that there are 3 pictures. Would you care to explain how on earth Vettel's car is on the right side of the track on picture 3?

And, btw, the moment when cars collided is on picture 2 not 1. Vettel has some room on the right while Kubica's going towards the left curb.

Look at picture 3 closely, Vettel has a whole arm-full of steering lock applied, its not like he drove into Kubica. Yes they actualy collided in picture 2 but thats because in picture one Vettel is clearly being forced high up onto the inside Kerb, watch the video footage and you'll see after hitting the kerb Vettel understeered into Kubica.

In my opinion they're both at fault, but Kubica more so, he could have left so much room. Vettel STILL HAD THE POSITION when they approached the corner and lost it only under braking, once they're in the braking Zone they are committed to the corner, they can't just brake harder, they're already braking as hard as they can given their car & tyres etc.

If you look at the overhead replay shown during the race, at the apex point of the turn BOTH CARS were within the inside THIRD of the race track, Kubica had a whole TWO THIRDS of race track left to leave room. Frankly to say Kubica left enough room having seen that replay is just madness. As Martin Brundle put it:
"There's no point in squeezing a car that's committed to a braking zone, he'll just ed up driving into the side of you."

I'm sorry but having seen multiple angles of this incident many times I can only conclude that Kubica could have left more room. It would have done Kubica NO HARM to do so, so why didn't he. I see this as a racig incident but Kubica is to blame for it happening, becuase he made a mess of his overtaking manouvre.

Exactly. But the stewards could never understand that, they just see one car hitting another and dish out a penalty, the cant understand that even though it looks like Vettel drove in to the side of Kubica and had room to move he was actually trying as hard as he could to stop & turn right but he was on the limit.

It really makes me laugh how people always think because there's room there the drivers can simply steer in to it, unfortunately it doesn't quite work like that. As you said the drivers are driving the track on the limit trying to extract the most from the car in every corner. It isn't like driving a road car where you can just turn the wheel a bit more [-X

[modbaraban]

It looks like I share the same sort of blindness as the race stewarts and Vettel himself

The thing is that I still somehow see Kubica aiming right at the outside curb while RB5's nose aiming at the outside curb at all times while Vettel clearly had to stick to the inside line. Although Vettel turned the wheel, it's not Kubica's fault that the tyres were worn out and the speed was too high.

It really makes me laugh how people always think because there's room there the drivers can simply steer in to it, unfortunately it doesn't quite work like that. As you said the drivers are driving the track on the limit trying to extract the most from the car in every corner. It isn't like driving a road car where you can just turn the wheel a bit more [-X

Can't stick to your line? Drive slower! Vettel gave the opportunity to pass and then rammed the passing car off the road, although not intentionally. But it's his fault.