BGP1 inspired by F2001?

[gcdugas]

Is it possible that the nose for the BGP1 was inspired by the F2001? 2001 was, if you recall the last year before the FIA raised the front wing twice in (2002?) and again (2004?). With the new reg allowing a lower wing, getting the air around the front wheels is different. My hack aero sense tells me that the droopy and slightly wide nose allows for clean flow over the center of the car while creating a low pressure zone immediately behind the droop which helps absorb some of the high pressure wake from the inside of the front wheels. This looks to be the thinking of the Williams as well. But I ask if Ross Brawn remembered something aero notable from his days working with the F2001 that moved him to mimic it on his maiden car. Sure the center section of the wing is FIA spec'd neutral but the downforce generating sections are still much lower like in 2001.

On the other hand, Red Bull and Toyota both have fast cars with much higher noses.

[Conceptual]

I read where Brawn said that since they had so much development time, that they took MANY solutions out to their conclusion. They then designed the car around philosophies that did not end in dead-ends, so the basis of the BGP001 has enormous development potential. I don't think that anything came directly from Ferrari, but I would not doubt that the concepts that were tested were taken from many of the low wing cars thru out the years.

I think that the fast cars will hit terminal development velocity before the BGP for this reason. 15 months of development is a LOT of time, especially with 2 wind tunnels running 24/7. In effect, that is like 2-3 YEARS of evolutional development compared to the late 90's.

Also, the BGP001 has won 3 out of 4 races in LAUNCH SPEC, so with the updates that are scheduled for Barcelona, do not be surprised if they make a HUGE leap forward in relation to the other teams. RBR, McLaren, Toyota and Renault have all closed the gap over the last 3 races by showing up with upgrades while the BGP has stood still. I expect that to completely change in Barcelona!

Q. Do you feel they have developed more towards you in these races, or are they just getting more out of the cars?

RB: A bit of both. I think probably they are optimising the package they have and adding bits. Quite genuinely we've had nothing on the car since it was launched in Barcelona. Now is the time that we can start adding things and trying to improve.

[Scotracer]

Barcelona is going to be a Brawn-induced massacre.

[PNSD]

Barcelona is going to be a Brawn-induced massacre.

Haha. It would be a dream come true.

Reading concep's post gives me confidence for Brawn. I do remember them saying the car had massive development potential. Hopefully then they can get back in front !

[Conceptual]

I hope that RBR especially can keep it close with the Brawn, just so we can have some excitement for the rest of 2009, but I think that the possibility of the RB5 maxing out earlier than the BGP001 in terms of performance upgradability is a very good possibility.

Those that got their $1000 bet on Button at 180:1 odds, I'll see you in Antigua after the season is over!

[Scotracer]

I hope that RBR especially can keep it close with the Brawn, just so we can have some excitement for the rest of 2009, but I think that the possibility of the RB5 maxing out earlier than the BGP001 in terms of performance upgradability is a very good possibility.

Those that got their $1000 bet on Button at 180:1 odds, I'll see you in Antigua after the season is over!

I will be getting $2000 if Button gets a WDC

[ESPImperium]

I think that the Brawn BGP001 has a good 1.2 to 1.7 seconds of futher development to achive. I think that other cars will have simmilar development, brawn still has that initial .3 to .7 in hand.

Heres what i see for development for each team/car from Bahrain pace:

Brawn BGP001: 1.2 to 1.7 seconds
Red Bull RB5: 1.0 to 1.45 seconds (Also take the Toro Rosso STR4 as well here)
BMW Sauber F1.09: 1.0 to 1.5 seconds (With KERS, probably more without)
Toyota TF109: 0.9 to 1.4 seconds
Renault R29: 0.9 to 1.25 (With KERS, probably more without)
Williams FW31: 0.85 to 1.4 seconds
Force india VJM-02: 0.85 to 1.30 (Probably less when KERS is introduced)
Ferrari F60: 0.85 to 1.2 seconds (With KERS, probably more without)
McLaren MP4-24: 0.85 to 1.15 seconds (With KERS, probably more without)

I think the cars that have gone without KERS so far this season have a greater ammount of development scope avalable to them. To such extent i can see BMW Sauber producing a NON-KERS car for Kubica as he seems to like the non KERS cars as he is faster in them.

And so far there has been no KERS cars in the top 6 of Quali or the the first 3 over the line, as long as you exempt the freak wether conditions that were introduced during the Malaysian GP.

[Gonner]

And so far there has been no KERS cars in the top 6 of Quali or the the first 3 over the line, as long as you exempt the freak wether conditions that were introduced during the Malaysian GP.

Lewis had the KERS in Bahrain, and he was fifth.

But I agree with your analysis of future evolutions, and with Scotracer :

Barcelona is going to be a Brawn-induced massacre.

Indeed, it's going to be, but I personally strongly believe in Newey, who said that the RBR will have major evolutions in Monaco. I can see Vettel clinching the title this year.

[ESPImperium]

I can see it being a 2 way fight at the end of the season between Brawn with Button and Red Bull with Vettel. I feel that Button is the right driver with the right car, where Vellel has a slightly lesser car, but can wrigh it to get that extra out of it to bridge the gap between him and Button and his Brawn.

However there is a few things that need to be proven by each driver;

1) Mental toughness over the season as both are untried at WDC fight level, posibly Button has this with his experience with BAR in 2004 showing.
2) Vettel needs to win a dry race for me, also Button needs to win a wet race where luck (Hungary 06) and red flags (Malaysia 09) dont come into it.
3) Both drivers must cope with the Mclaren and Renault resurgance and the Toyotas overall general race.

Both Brawn and Red Bull need to continualy evolve and make their quick cars quicker, staying ahead of the big boys who will come up to them faster than they can evolve their cars with their budgets. Brawn especially need to get more good dollar sponsors aborard that can add to their budget so as to keep the car on a good evolutionary path that can win both WDC and Constructors title.

[ISLAMATRON]

How can people think the BGP has more development potential than the RBR when it has been under development for over a year longer than the RBR? Especially when the RBR has yet to fit a DDD?

The longer a car is developed the harder(and more expensive) it is to gain more speed out of it. Example the monumental efforts and money McLaren spent to squeeze 0.15 sec out of the MP4/23 for Brazil last year.

The real question is if the RBR's development potential can outweigh the speed BGP already has in hand.

ESPImperium: How did you come about those number?

And Hamilton crossed the 3rd in a KERS car in Austrailia, not that it means anything about its true speed.

[ESPImperium]

ESPImperium: How did you come about those number?

Im looking at some of the data ive got for the season so far and by what ive heard. May be complete conjecture on my part, but im quoting figures for the end of the season, not for Barcelona.

So im accounting for each team to do at least 2 major updates and one smaller but still conciderable update toward the end of the season as well.

[Crabbia]

this is not a bgp fanboy thread but some of the posts in hear sound like they should be read with a wavering, pubescent voice. i'm really not gonna argue back, i'll rather just dig this thread up after the end of the european rounds and enjoy the the sweet silence. hopefully some the voices would have broken by then.

I'va actually thought this myself, not that the F2001 was an inspiration to the BGP but that there are similarities between them in terms of slicks, front wings and sly rule interpretation. pretty fundemental stuff. its not about constant an iterative development this season but more about innovation and clever thinking. and gettting the basics right in terms of CoG and aerobalance. and alot of sly rule interprtation which was pretty much the order of the day in '01.

[bar555]

Anyone interested in a photo comparison between BGP001 and F2001 to see if there is any resemblance at all ?

[Conceptual]

Anyone interested in a photo comparison between BGP001 and F2001 to see if there is any resemblance at all ?

ABSOLUTELY!

[Scotracer]

I seriously doubt there is any resemblance