Suspension Geometry

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ham2000
ham2000
0
Joined: 14 Jul 2009, 21:01

Suspension Geometry

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does anyone have any info plus good close up pictures etc of the suspension types and the different geometry of the suspension and wheels
thanks

Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
166
Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Suspension Geometry

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google
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OrStateAero
OrStateAero
0
Joined: 21 Jul 2009, 19:26

Re: Suspension Geometry

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ham2000 wrote:does anyone have any info plus good close up pictures etc of the suspension types and the different geometry of the suspension and wheels
thanks

Read Carroll Smith's 'Tune to Win'

That will become your bible


Oregon State FSAE
07-present
Aerodynamics Engineer

Alfoncito
Alfoncito
0
Joined: 23 Jul 2009, 14:07

Rocker Arm Suspension Geometry

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Hi every one I´m Mechanical Engineer student and I´m trying build a rocker arm to my tesis project about race GT car suspension, can anybody help me to send me information how can I design a rocker arm I mean to have lineal if it is posible Instalation ratio ? to be honest I don´t know how to start to design this part of the car and I really appreciate your help.
Thank you so much to all
Greeting
Alfoncito

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Suspension Geometry

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in all honesty I do not understand that question.
Rocker arm geometries and layout ,suspension geometries and layout are entirely driven by your needs and constraints (be it rules or already fixed points in the rest of the design).So to start with the design or even with the rocker arm ratios will lead to nothing more than an exercise how to draw a part in CAD maybe...
First try to find out what the intended combo of regulations and tyre will need in terms of suspension characteristics and work from there .Of course this is not really the starting point when designing a car from scratch.
always try to keep things simple !

riff_raff
riff_raff
132
Joined: 24 Dec 2004, 10:18

Re: Suspension Geometry

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Alfoncito,

The rocker arm suspension was adopted for race chassis for a couple reasons:

1- The rocker arm mechanism could be designed to produce a rising spring rate in the suspension, which was beneficial for race cars with limited ground clearance and suspension travel.

2- The pushrod/rocker suspension moved the suspension spring and dampener mass inboard, thus reducing the chassis polar moment-of-inertia.

3- the pushrod (or pullrod) and rocker arrangement produced less aero drag with an open wheel chassis race car. And it also gets the rear suspension links up and out of the way of an underwing or diffuser.

4- pushrod and rocker suspensions also allow complex suspension arrangements like 3 spring suspensions.

The things to watch out for when designing a pushrod/rocker suspension are:

-Don't use too shallow an angle for the pushrod. It is very easy to fail the pushrod in buckling if its loaded vector angle is too shallow.

-Don't use too small of a ratio for the rocker. A small amount of linear travel in the dampener will make it difficult to fine tune the dampener rates. The shock needs lots of travel to be effective.

-A shallow angle on the rocker will also produce high forces on the rocker pivot. When laying out your suspension geometry, try to keep all of the suspension forces within plane as much as possible.

Hope that helps.
Terry
"Q: How do you make a small fortune in racing?
A: Start with a large one!"

Alfoncito
Alfoncito
0
Joined: 23 Jul 2009, 14:07

re: Thank you terry and marcush you help me a lot

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Thak you Terry and Marcush for your answer I learnt a lot about reading your answer so now I trying to improve a GT car Suspension who has doble wishbone and the damper is it to 45º de between the upper and lower wishbone so I try to change this layout adding push rod suspension with rocker arm keeping the same damper so I understand the theory but how should I start to design the rocker arm I mean the lenght and ratio between the pushrod and the damper to have a lineal behaviour?that´s is what I trying to do but I don´t know how....
well mates thank you again
I hope to heard more about you
Alfoncito

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Suspension Geometry

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some points I´d like to add

a good current damper ohlins ttx for example ,does not need more than a few tenths of a millimeter to build up considerable forces

the benefit of a rocker is the freedom of rising and falling rates + freedom of leverage.
of course ,a lot of bearings and bushings produce slack and give(flex) in the system as well plus stiction al unwanted.So installation stiffness is a major consideration in design.

So the bottom line is reduction in unsprung mass and packaging reasons so rocker solutions are mainly found on lighweight cars

most formula car layouts are really relying on minimum suspension travel as the pivot axis is packaged the wrong way -altering the pushrod angle to the rocker during suspension travel.this really opens a can of worms setupwise as you really alter the rates and put a lot of stress into the components.these cars are dominated by aero and packaging priorities and do surely not make good examples for optimised suspension design.Of course a lot of potential is left unused in these layouts ,or in other words rthey have a quite small range of setups that work...

Alfoncito
Alfoncito
0
Joined: 23 Jul 2009, 14:07

Re: Suspension Geometry thanks you Marcush

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Thank you terry and Marcush I´m happy to know about your answer and I will try to do my best but I have no idea how to start to design this rocker arm? I mean the lenght of the point where forces are applied and the angle as yuo said before of the push rod
I will sketch the system in 3d cad and I will try to find answer from this test
How is your opinion?
thanks you all
Alfoncito :?

speedsense
speedsense
13
Joined: 31 May 2009, 19:11
Location: California, USA

Re: re: Thank you terry and marcush you help me a lot

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Alfoncito wrote:Thak you Terry and Marcush for your answer I learnt a lot about reading your answer so now I trying to improve a GT car Suspension who has doble wishbone and the damper is it to 45º de between the upper and lower wishbone so I try to change this layout adding push rod suspension with rocker arm keeping the same damper so I understand the theory but how should I start to design the rocker arm I mean the lenght and ratio between the pushrod and the damper to have a lineal behaviour?that´s is what I trying to do but I don´t know how....
well mates thank you again
I hope to heard more about you
Alfoncito
Alfoncito,
Having worked with an american GT1 (Trans Am) with front rockers and recently rear rockers on a dion rear axle assembly, the reason behind the design where for the following and haven't been addressed above.
1)By moving to the rocker design the rocker ratios were allowed to be above what is availiable mounting from chassis to axle ( IE-normal config.)
2)This meant that the movement at the shock (coil overs retained) was increased as to the movement of the wheel. This meant much lower spring rates than were possible then the normal config.
3)This also meant more shock travel per movement of the wheel and more influence from the shock.
4)Whether the rocker is digressive, or progressive or one consistant motion ratio, the rocker can be designed to do all three, as a change in location of either the push rod or the shock mounting, all on the rocker and can be designed into it....which one's better, is open for debate and depends on the effect needed. Plus and minus's to each and depends on a lot of things. Having all three availiable makes the investigation possible.
5)Rocker designs allow for zero or negative droop setups, not possible in normal config.(there is a way to do this in the normal config., but I don't care to give that thought away. (Though have never found a reason to droop limit a GT car as US race tracks tend to be quite bumpy compared to European tracks)
6) Location of the ARB (anti roll bar) leverages can also be altered easily by design of mount. Even the type of roll bar could be altered. IE- going to a "T" bar design
7) Heat and heat soak will be an issue, putting the shocks that close to a V-8 engine
"Driving a car as fast as possible (in a race) is all about maintaining the highest possible acceleration level in the appropriate direction." Peter Wright,Techical Director, Team Lotus

Alfoncito
Alfoncito
0
Joined: 23 Jul 2009, 14:07

Thank you speedsense or Rookie for help me

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Thank you Speedsense or rookie I read you answer and I think that you have a lot experience working with race car suspension and thank you for teach me with your experience I very happy for that I´m trying to learnt about race car suspension but with this ussue is very hard well information like yours I´m will try to applied what you write in my tesis work so now I´m trying to compute forces to do an structural analysis of the rocker arm I have a wheel travel of 40mm bump and -40mm rebound and the chassis is tubular so my I was thinking that the position of the rocker it is not aligned with fixed points between wishbone and chassis to finish I can´t understand why the spring can change its behaviour changing motion ratio ....
If somebody want to help me with advice I will be grateful
thanks you all
and specially Peedsense and Rookie
Alfoncito