Using wheel spokes to increase brake cooling

[roost89]

Basically, my question is: Are you allowed to shape the spokes of an F1 wheel to create an increase in airflow to increase brake cooling in F1? Would it even be useful in a car?
I know this was done on the McMerc SLR road car. I got a picture for reference from Flickr


I wasn't sure if this was aero or mechanical as it's a bit of both, shift wear it's meant to be if it's in the wrong place.

[RacingManiac]

I think Toyota is running a fanned wheel cover at the back, so is Red Bull....not sure if it is for brake cooling though...

[roost89]

I believe they are running those on the Toyota. But I'm not meaning the wheel covers, the actual spokes of the wheel.
I'm not sure if they'd make the wheel too heavy to be viable.

[gcdugas]

I believe they are running those on the Toyota. But I'm not meaning the wheel covers, the actual spokes of the wheel.
I'm not sure if they'd make the wheel too heavy to be viable.

Without the covers the exiting air flow wouldn't be controlled or localized enough. Once the spokes, or whatever, creates the air flow, the flow must be channeled. Hence the covers.

[tk421]

Don't know if it helps with brake cooling, but the Aileron's wheels came to mind...

[newbie]

with external wheel covers and wheel fans banned for next year, dont be at all surprised if you begin to see shaped rims showing up on the F1 grid. they will be for aero reasons of course but they do help with brake cooling.

[qw56q]

i remember the revonton wheels specifically designed for this purpose.

[imightbewrong]

As mentioned in the development blog:
http://www.f1technical.net/development/178

[axle]

I believe that the wheels cannot be active aero aides. Ie they must be neutral. Weight is the main area they can find an advantage with them. The wheel rim covers are different and covered by different rules.

[roost89]

I believe that the wheels cannot be active aero aides. Ie they must be neutral. Weight is the main area they can find an advantage with them. The wheel rim covers are different and covered by different rules.

That's the kinda answer I'm after =) Does anyone know for certain? Sorry Axle, but belief doesn't cut it.

Thanks to all other replies so far, I didn't know about the Reventon wheels or the Spykers. Rather interesting.

[tahadar]

Nothing in the '09 regs prevents the wheel spokes from being shaped in a 'non-neutral' way. The wheel fans are effectively a part of the wheel because they spin, and the only reason why they havent been banned is because of a sort of gentlemans agreement. With wheel covers and fans banned next year you might see shaped wheel rims early in the season, but I suspect the '10 regs may have these banned as well, either on the basis of moveable aero or simply under the wheel regulations. This will require some out-of-the-box thinking...

[riff_raff]

roost89,

The CRC brakes used in F1 don't need a whole lot of cooling. In fact, I'd bet that most of the "brake" cooling airflow is designed to keep the wheel bearing temps in check. Keeping CRC brakes at a consistent temp is more important than keeping them cool.

F1 cars use ram air ducts to provide cooling airflow to the brakes, since this is the most efficient method, and it makes it easy to adjust airflow rates to suite any track condition simply by changing the duct.

Using "aero" profiled wheel spokes might seem like a neat idea, but in reality it is not so good. The relatively small diameter wheel spokes on an F1 car don't really generate enough tangential velocity to create adequate mass airflow rates required for brake cooling, even if the spokes were shaped like airfoils. And the teams would need to have multiple sets of wheels for each track, both left and right hand, to get the brake cooling right.

The "spokes" on an F1 wheel are designed to provide a stiff and lightweight wheel structure, as well as allowing the brake cooling airflow enough area to exit freely. And of course, there's those pesky rules about moving aero surfaces..........

Regards,
Terry

[noname]

roost89,

The CRC brakes used in F1 don't need a whole lot of cooling. In fact, I'd bet that most of the "brake" cooling airflow is designed to keep the wheel bearing temps in check. Keeping CRC brakes at a consistent temp is more important than keeping them cool.

cooling of CRC pads and discs may not be a big issue but there are metallic parts (calipers, pistons...) as well as maybe brake fluid lines and the fluid itself for which cooling could be more important. apart from that flow is needed to remove CRC particles.

[axle]

I believe that the wheels cannot be active aero aides. Ie they must be neutral. Weight is the main area they can find an advantage with them. The wheel rim covers are different and covered by different rules.

That's the kinda answer I'm after =) Does anyone know for certain? Sorry Axle, but belief doesn't cut it.

Thanks to all other replies so far, I didn't know about the Reventon wheels or the Spykers. Rather interesting.

Doesn't it come under the moveable aero aide rule? The spinners are actually still arn't they...they are just air guides.

Do the units on the Toyota etc move or not?

[TheChad]

I believe that the wheels cannot be active aero aides. Ie they must be neutral. Weight is the main area they can find an advantage with them. The wheel rim covers are different and covered by different rules.

That's the kinda answer I'm after =) Does anyone know for certain? Sorry Axle, but belief doesn't cut it.

Thanks to all other replies so far, I didn't know about the Reventon wheels or the Spykers. Rather interesting.

Doesn't it come under the moveable aero aide rule? The spinners are actually still arn't they...they are just air guides.

Do the units on the Toyota etc move or not?

The rear ones on the Toyota (and others) do not. I think they get around the movable aero aid rule because there primary purpose is brake cooling.