Moving to inboard instead of sidepod mirrors.

[raymondu999]

Hey all. Just wondering. Vettel made a big issue of the moving to inboard mirrors. Other teams aren't doing much of that, (if any). Why is this so? Is it so crucial for the bulls? Wouldn't it really just add a little bit more drag, and maybe disrupt the flow over the rest of the car a bit?

[raceman]

Mirror ban delayed until Spanish GP

[WhiteBlue]

The move itself is sensible. It looked like a very tight time schedule when I first heard about the plan to complete it for China. I'm sure teams could do it somehow but in order to avoid complaints they have been given a bit more time.

Tjhe FiA should also issue a rule for 2011 that the front wing must be visible by the driver outlawing some of the high nose configurations that are problematic for safety.

[DaveKillens]

Of course it will have a negative impact on the car's aero package. And for teams such as Red Bull and Ferrari, who position their mirrors way out on the side, it is a small step backwards. Their immediate competitors, Mercedes and McLaren will not suffer this change, because their mirrors are already in an acceptable position. In a contest where the smallest factors can become huge, it eats away at the slight performance advantage Red Bull and Ferrari have over Mclaren and Mercedes.

[WhiteBlue]

In a contest where the smallest factors can become huge, it eats away at the slight performance advantage Red Bull and Ferrari have over Mclaren and Mercedes.

I don't mind.

[Astro1]

A disguised championship manipulation attempt

http://ferrarif1forum.com/2010/04/02/f1 ... ipulation/

[ESPImperium]

A disguised championship manipulation attempt

http://ferrarif1forum.com/2010/04/02/f1 ... ipulation/

Rose tinted glasses, much, i think!!!

[DaveKillens]

A disguised championship manipulation attempt

http://ferrarif1forum.com/2010/04/02/f1 ... ipulation/

Wow, talk about a one-sided argument. Is it always that pathetic in these Ferrari forums where such inane, adolescent, and immature thoughts are vocalized? Is it this way everytime anything happens that is not to Ferrari's benefit?

Some of these so-called Ferrari fans ought to suck it up and realize that this time, the change is actually driven by a need to address a safety concern. Or do all lemon shipments go to Maranello so everyone can get a good and sour look on their face?

[Astro1]

So you see nothing abnormal in the need to ban outboard mirrors 4 years after their introduction?

[roost89]

So you see nothing abnormal in the need to ban outboard mirrors 4 years after their introduction?

Not really, enlighten me. What's abnormal about it?

[Astro1]

As posted on autosport forums.

The starter hole was banned because it was already against the regulations. The FIA asked teams to revise their designs or else. This was done very quickly. The FIA had no choice as the starter hole was "larger than necessary" as per the rules. And I don't even think they had to revise it. I could be wrong.

Only after the above did the FIA choose to act on the mirrors which have again and this is a major point been on the cars for 4 years and NOT without similar concerns on safety being voiced upon their initial introduction.

Saying that as of 2011 as with the DDD the devices will be illegal makes sense to me.

BUT it doesn't make sense that teams which designed their cars for 2010 with outboard mirrors in mind, as they have for 4 years prior are now being hung out to dry becuase the FIA got a funny safety itch.

Sorry it just doesn't make sense to me.

Why are Red Bull and Ferrari for example being disadvantaged by using a device that conforms to the letter of the rules and has been accepted as part of the car for 3 past championships?

[WhiteBlue]

The outboard mirrors of 2007 and 2008 were much different and a lot more rigid in design than the 2009 and 2010 variety.

In the meantime people have learned and someone like Rubens observed how bad outboard mirrors were 2009 at Monaco. This year it will be even worse because there will be more and slower cars on the circuit.

Several drivers have approached the FiA with safety concerns including Rubens and Michael Schumacher. They ought to listen to concerns of senior drivers. I guess they also have spoken with the driver stewards they now employ. Next think about the accident between Kobayashi and Hülkenberg which could have gone much worse and could involve in similar form an out of control car approaching from behind. A driver needs a chance to evade such a situation.

The FiA has the responsibility and the duty to act on such issues. There are enough precedents that have been seen over the years. The last clean up on mirrors isn't more than five or six years if I remember right. Also horns and x-wings were quickly banned in season. So saying this is an anti Ferrari or anti Red Bull action is rubbish.

[Astro1]

In the meantime people have learned and someone like Rubens observed how bad outboard mirrors were 2009 at Monaco. This year it will be even worse because there will be more and slower cars on the circuit.

Several drivers have approached the FiA with safety concerns including Rubens and Michael Schumacher. They ought to listen to concerns of senior drivers. I guess they also have spoken with the driver stewards they now employ. Next think about the accident between Kobayashi and Hülkenberg which could have gone much worse and could involve in similar form an out of control car approaching from behind. A driver needs a chance to evade such a situation.

The FiA has the responsibility and the duty to act on such issues. There are enough precedents that have been seen over the years. The last clean up on mirrors isn't more than five or six years if I remember right. Also horns and x-wings were quickly banned in season. So saying this is an anti Ferrari or anti Red Bull action is rubbish.

The outboard mirrors of 2007 and 2008 were much different and a lot more rigid in design than the 2009 and 2010 variety.

Ok tell them to make them more rigid.

IMO 2 out of 22 is not a significant number.

Massa said he had no problems seeing his mirrors neither did Vettel so that's two against two now what?

IMO the action to ban the outboard mirrors is too quick too fast to be called legitimate especially after being in service for so long.

[WhiteBlue]

Ok tell them to make them more rigid.

IMO 2 out of 22 is not a significant number.

Massa said he had no problems seeing his mirrors neither did Vettel so that's two against two now what?

IMO the action to ban the outboard mirrors is too quick too fast to be called legitimate especially after being in service for so long.

You should know when you loose an argument. The outboard mirrors not only vibrate more than they should but also force drivers to turn their heads unnecessary wide which delays their recognition of important rear side information. The outboard mirrors are considerably distanced from the center of their peripheral vision so that reaction to rearside incidents is delayed or prohibited. There are enough facts to justify the ban.

The period for rectifying the wrong mirror position has been prolonged already and further delay can't be justified.

Massa and Vettel havn't objected due to safety reasons but due to performance reasons.

Give it up man!! Safety goes first and in this case it is 100% justified.

[Astro1]

When the FIA mandated the driver head side restraint and protection areas be raised for obvious reasons it took the next season before they were introduced.

It's a different case with these mirrors in that they are mandating an almost immediate implementation.

It very well may be a minor issue, but I think it's serious enough to question.

This is competitive F1 and I wouldn't be surprised to see further complaints from Ferrari and Red Bull on the matter.

For now, I will rest my case.