2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

[astracrazy]

Shame some people on this board can't stay consistent. Max's fault this time because his nose wasn't in front, yet Silverstone it was Max's fault because he should have just left room, even though Lewis didn't have his nose in front.

[Mattyw]

No they weren't. At no point during the corner was Verstappen ahead until he was airborne.

You have seen Lewis onboard I presume?. If you haven't then you'd rather not claim this. This is on initial turn in. Verstappen is literally right there.

https://i.imgur.com/p1jyloI.png

And is he ahead? No. The driver ahead has the right to the corner.

No idea where ver thinks he is going. Red mist from the pit stop I suspect !

[El Scorchio]

Mercedes could've stuck the long run on hards plan rather than reacting to verstappen's slow stop, even if the gap would've reduced they would've had the offset later and could possibly have benefited from a safety car.

I was very surprised they reacted. I guess they saw the opportunity to jump ahead because of the bad pit stop for Verstappen, but then had a bad one of their own.

[matt_b]

No they weren't. At no point during the corner was Verstappen ahead until he was airborne.

Yeah he was never ahead and was only alongside when Hamilton was turning and he was lifted off the road by the giant sausage kerb. Verstappen should have backed out but he knew if hadn't stayed alongside Hamilton would have stayed ahead

Exactly- thank you.

Verstappen was clearly thinking 'Either I'm coming out of this corner ahead or neither of us is coming out of it.'

Exactly if its any other car Max cuts the chicane.

[101FlyingDutchman]

I don’t understand the early HAM stop. Like why, unless the tyre was shot, staying out would have created all the gaps he needed

[Spacepace]

Its not just Brundle literally the onboards show they were side by side. You can see Verstappen on Lewis' onboard the as they turned through. Perhaps Hamilton just didn't expect him there.

There was overlap but Hamilton's nose was always in front. As I said, at no point was Verstappen ahead. Any sensible driver would have backed out of that.

In fact, Leclerc just showed exactly what Verstappen should have done.

It's not about being ahead sir. It's about being side by side and leaving space, otherwise, what Norris did to Perez, or what Perez did to Leclerc are all admissible as fair racing under your criteria.

You're pointing to Leclerc who despite having the space went off the track, that is what drivers must do?. Go off the track instead of racing fairly?. Cool.

So hypothetical if they were side by side they both had the right to the corner. But in this instance Verstappen went deep and tried to use part of the kerbs to race on. You can't overtake off the track. He should have yielded

[El Scorchio]

You have seen Lewis onboard I presume?. If you haven't then you'd rather not claim this. This is on initial turn in. Verstappen is literally right there.

https://i.imgur.com/p1jyloI.png

And is he ahead? No. The driver ahead has the right to the corner.

If that is the "rule" there will never be overtaking.

Not at that chicane when you're behind and driving into a closing wedge. It was a silly, desperate move that didn't need to be done there. Leclerc just after the restart showed exactly what should be done in that situation. Just live to fight another day.

[astracrazy]

There was overlap but Hamilton's nose was always in front. As I said, at no point was Verstappen ahead. Any sensible driver would have backed out of that.

In fact, Leclerc just showed exactly what Verstappen should have done.

It's not about being ahead sir. It's about being side by side and leaving space, otherwise, what Norris did to Perez, or what Perez did to Leclerc are all admissible as fair racing under your criteria.

You're pointing to Leclerc who despite having the space went off the track, that is what drivers must do?. Go off the track instead of racing fairly?. Cool.

So hypothetical if they were side by side they both had the right to the corner. But in this instance Verstappen went deep and tried to use part of the kerbs to race on. You can't overtake off the track. He should have yielded

He never went four wheels off the track

[Spacepace]

I don’t understand the early HAM stop. Like why, unless the tyre was shot, staying out would have created all the gaps he needed

I think it was to cover off Verstappen but I was shocked to see them do it too. The thing is I think he would have had to overtake on the soft at the end

[El Scorchio]

I don’t understand the early HAM stop. Like why, unless the tyre was shot, staying out would have created all the gaps he needed

Reacting to the slow stop by RBR, but then suffering a slow one of their own. They'd have guaranteed track position on the same strategy had their stop gone according to plan. I can see why they did it.

[Hoffman900]

Bottas would be a legion if he wins this

[NathanOlder]

He wasn't behind. They were side by side the whole time. Like Ocon vs Vettel earlier.

No they weren't. At no point during the corner was Verstappen ahead until he was airborne.

You have seen Lewis onboard I presume?. If you haven't then you'd rather not claim this. This is on initial turn in. Verstappen is literally right there.

https://i.imgur.com/p1jyloI.png

Not ahead, so Lewis has the right to the line. Like Max did on lap 1.

[PlatinumZealot]

Danny slower than Lando

Funny track. Softer tyres faster car and passing is still impossible.

[politburo]

He wasn't behind. They were side by side the whole time. Like Ocon vs Vettel earlier.

No they weren't. At no point during the corner was Verstappen ahead until he was airborne.

Yeah he was never ahead and was only alongside when Hamilton was turning and he was lifted off the road by the giant sausage kerb. Verstappen should have backed out but he knew if hadn't stayed alongside Hamilton would have stayed ahead

It's not about being ahead *facepalm*. Who in the world told you that if you're side by side and one driver is a meter or 2 ahead, with cars that are 5 meters long, then they can just turn in like the other driver isn't there?. There is so much precedence for this I don't understand what you're even arguing, its about being significantly alongside. Can point to at least 5+ situations like these in the past two years alone where a driver gets penalized for forcing another driver off-track/crowding because they did not leave a car's width.

[Tvetovnato]

And is he ahead? No. The driver ahead has the right to the corner.

If that is the "rule" there will never be overtaking.

Not at that chicane when you're behind and driving into a closing wedge. It was a silly, desperate move that didn't need to be done there. Leclerc just after the restart showed exactly what should be done in that situation. Just live to fight another day.

Live to fight another day is not what Max is about, despite being in a championship fight with the best car.