2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

[Starkblood80]

You're just plain wrong about Silverstone, Hamilton was barely making the corner there. There is plenty of trajectory analysis for this. Max gave him plenty of space lol. It's inarguable, the analysis is already, no need for conjuncture sorry.

Lol if anything Merc are afraid of Max because he literally doesn't care if he wins, he's a realist, he takes what is given, and is only 24 btw he is in no rush to win championships. Lewis has everything to lose and has the faster car, why would Max be afraid of that?. Hhe literally had no defence and they knew this from the start of the weekend, even from Perez having been passed like a pice of paper. If Max was so scared of Ham why wouldn't he just slow down to give Perez DRS and keep it a DRS train?.

There’s just no way to realistically respond to such drivel.

Then don't, you clearly have no interest in being honest either way. Look at all your posts, it's all "Hamilton yay!". Lol Goodnight.

All my posts are Hamilton yay and you have the audacity to tell me I have no interest in being honest all the while trying to defend Verstappen pushing Hamilton off the track today . Dear lord their are some delusional posters on this forum.

[dans79]

An advantage that lasted how laps again? 3, 4?.

That's more than the stewards have considered a lasting advantage many many times before.

[politburo]

Imo penalties should be applied on consequence first then intent 2nd.

No legal body works that's way.

What they need to do is apply the rules properly all the time regardless of what lap it is, corner it is, or who the driver is.

If they wanted to do it properly the stewards shouldn't be allowed to see a live feed, and anytime something is referred to them, they should be shown simulations/animations based on all the live data the FIA/FOM/Liberty have at their finger tips. They shouldn't be told who the drivers are, or what position they are fighting for, just the simulations that prevent them from making anything other than 100% unbiased decision.

I agree it mustn't matter what lap it is or driver, but it should be consequence before intent as this is not a conventional legal body though, how would the FIA assess intent in the middle of a race?. We must accept that there might be bias in their decisions and that they scale their decisions based on the consequence of the incident more than anything else really. Like Vettel's underfuelling in Hungary, or Verstappen and Hamilton crashing in Monza, they rightfully assessed the matter based on the consequence, otherwise, it would be impossible to prove that AMRF1 intended to underfuel the car or that Verstappen intended to end his and Hamilton's race that way.

[politburo]

An advantage that lasted how laps again? 3, 4?.

That's more than the stewards have considered a lasting advantage many many times before.

A lasting advantage would simply be you taking off 2 or 3 seconds ahead like they did with Alonso and Giovinazzi, they let it develop and then see if the advantage actually lasts. In which case, they instruct you to simply give the place back or face 5 seconds, an immediate penalty is simply too harsh.

[politburo]

The only real difference between here and silverstone is the fact Hamilton didn’t try and turn in on Verstappen, the incidents are almost identical otherwise. The only thing that seems to have saved max from
A penalty is Hamilton actively avoiding contact. If you thought Hamilton was in the wrong at silverstone then there’s no real defensive of Verstappen today.

If Silverstone was a racing incident, and many of you Hamilton fans claimed it was, then so is this one and the one in Monza as well an the one in Bahrain. That is my point.

Hamilton missed the apex by a few inches, we don‘t know if max would have made the corner anyway

max on the other hand missed the track! by „a few and a bit more“ inches and lewis would have made the corner.

but silverstone was a high speed corner, brasil was’t.
As stewards, a “will be investigated after the race” would have been the best decision. if hamilton wins, ignore the incident. if max wins, look at the onboards snd telemetry (how you would not hdnd a 5s penalty after that, is beyond me)

A few inches?. You know an inch is 2.5 cm? What a few be? 4, 5 inches?. Dude the guy missed the apex by at least 1 m or so.

High speed corner vs medium speed corner has what significance?.

[politburo]

There’s just no way to realistically respond to such drivel.

Then don't, you clearly have no interest in being honest either way. Look at all your posts, it's all "Hamilton yay!". Lol Goodnight.

All my posts are Hamilton yay and you have the audacity to tell me I have no interest in being honest all the while trying to defend Verstappen pushing Hamilton off the track today . Dear lord their are some delusional posters on this forum.

keep cheerleading! maybe you will be noticed. Goodnight!

[F1NAC]

If Silverstone was a racing incident, and many of you Hamilton fans claimed it was, then so is this one and the one in Monza as well an the one in Bahrain. That is my point.

Hamilton didn't go off the track as far as I remember? This today was clearly pushing your competitor off the track. That is his attitude. As soon as you are racing Verstappen in the corner he is going to push you off no matter what. The guy just clearly cannot race clean wheel to wheel. And that is just sad, because he is being "protected" by FIA by not even initiating investigation. Luckily Lewis managed to passed him.

Lewis got 10 second penalty in Silverstone. Max should have been penalised as well. At least they should have ordered him to give the position back immediately.

And booooooy that radio between RB and FIA with that "Let them race" bullshit. They were not speaking like that when Max was in the barriers. Pathetic from them.

Just to be clear, not a fan of Merc neither RB.


On the other note. Congrats to Lewis, that was a GOAT drive this whole weekend. Got penalised, kept his head down, clinical and cold in the race. What a race.

Lewis id take the racing line in Bahrain, and Max ha no choice but to go off the track there.

Lewis got a 10-second penalty but his fans were here on this very forum talking about how that was a racing incident, a narrative that just looks plain silly in hindsight. They can't have it both ways the Merc fans, they cannot say that it is racing incident when your driver does it and it is the devil himself when the other driver does it.

Lewis tried to stick it onto racing track, while Max didn't even bother making the corner. it is not comparable at all.

Now Bahrain... Please where did here Lewis pushed Max outside? Max stomped on the pedal and went outside the track. Again didn't bother to take the corner no matter the cost.



To me that is incompetence on max side managing the corner when wheel to wheel

[bonjon1979]

If Silverstone was a racing incident, and many of you Hamilton fans claimed it was, then so is this one and the one in Monza as well an the one in Bahrain. That is my point.

Hamilton missed the apex by a few inches, we don‘t know if max would have made the corner anyway

max on the other hand missed the track! by „a few and a bit more“ inches and lewis would have made the corner.

but silverstone was a high speed corner, brasil was’t.
As stewards, a “will be investigated after the race” would have been the best decision. if hamilton wins, ignore the incident. if max wins, look at the onboards snd telemetry (how you would not hdnd a 5s penalty after that, is beyond me)

A few inches?. You know an inch is 2.5 cm? What a few be? 4, 5 inches?. Dude the guy missed the apex by at least 1 m or so.

High speed corner vs medium speed corner has what significance?.

Max missed the apex of that corner by 25 metres. He missed the track by 5. It’s ridiculous that max wasn’t penalised.

[AeroDynamic]

Hamilton didn't go off the track as far as I remember? This today was clearly pushing your competitor off the track. That is his attitude. As soon as you are racing Verstappen in the corner he is going to push you off no matter what. The guy just clearly cannot race clean wheel to wheel. And that is just sad, because he is being "protected" by FIA by not even initiating investigation. Luckily Lewis managed to passed him.

Lewis got 10 second penalty in Silverstone. Max should have been penalised as well. At least they should have ordered him to give the position back immediately.

And booooooy that radio between RB and FIA with that "Let them race" bullshit. They were not speaking like that when Max was in the barriers. Pathetic from them.

Just to be clear, not a fan of Merc neither RB.


On the other note. Congrats to Lewis, that was a GOAT drive this whole weekend. Got penalised, kept his head down, clinical and cold in the race. What a race.

Lewis id take the racing line in Bahrain, and Max ha no choice but to go off the track there.

Lewis got a 10-second penalty but his fans were here on this very forum talking about how that was a racing incident, a narrative that just looks plain silly in hindsight. They can't have it both ways the Merc fans, they cannot say that it is racing incident when your driver does it and it is the devil himself when the other driver does it.

Lewis tried to stick it onto racing track, while Max didn't even bother making the corner. it is not comparable at all.

Now Bahrain... Please where did here Lewis pushed Max outside? Max stomped on the pedal and went outside the track. Again didn't bother to take the corner no matter the cost.

https://i.ibb.co/5R02ny0/Screenshot-202 ... 225146.jpg

To me that is incompetence on max side managing the corner when wheel to wheel

Exactly, Lewis kept it on the track. He did not leave the track to make another driver go even further off. It’s was an obvious penalty, and desperate. When you lose control of your car to the point where you go way outside the track, and impede another driver in the process, then you have crowded them or cost them time.

[dans79]

I agree it mustn't matter what lap it is or driver, but it should be consequence before intent as this is not a conventional legal body though, how would the FIA assess intent in the middle of a race?. We must accept that there might be bias in their decisions and that they scale their decisions based on the consequence of the incident more than anything else really. Like Vettel's underfuelling in Hungary, or Verstappen and Hamilton crashing in Monza, they rightfully assessed the matter based on the consequence, otherwise, it would be impossible to prove that AMRF1 intended to underfuel the car or that Verstappen intended to end his and Hamilton's race that way.

First there is a substantial difference between a racing ruling and a technical ruling.


Second, It cannot be based on consequence first, as consequence has an unlimited number of external factors thats can alter the outcome in a positive or negative way. Intent on the other hand only has one factor the person performing the action.

Hence why in many legal jurisdictions they have multiple types of "murder", and what differentiates them is intent, not outcome, the outcome is always the same, someone is dead.

In the US its like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_(U ... w)#Degrees

1. First-degree murder
2. Second-degree murder
3. Voluntary manslaughter
4. Involuntary manslaughter

[Starkblood80]

Then don't, you clearly have no interest in being honest either way. Look at all your posts, it's all "Hamilton yay!". Lol Goodnight.

All my posts are Hamilton yay and you have the audacity to tell me I have no interest in being honest all the while trying to defend Verstappen pushing Hamilton off the track today . Dear lord their are some delusional posters on this forum.

keep cheerleading! maybe you will be noticed. Goodnight!

I’m literally putting you on my ignore list, something I’ve never felt the need to do with any other forum member.
Goodnight

[straightline]

If Silverstone was a racing incident, and many of you Hamilton fans claimed it was, then so is this one and the one in Monza as well an the one in Bahrain. That is my point.

Hamilton missed the apex by a few inches, we don‘t know if max would have made the corner anyway

max on the other hand missed the track! by „a few and a bit more“ inches and lewis would have made the corner.

but silverstone was a high speed corner, brasil was’t.
As stewards, a “will be investigated after the race” would have been the best decision. if hamilton wins, ignore the incident. if max wins, look at the onboards snd telemetry (how you would not hdnd a 5s penalty after that, is beyond me)

A few inches?. You know an inch is 2.5 cm? What a few be? 4, 5 inches?. Dude the guy missed the apex by at least 1 m or so.

High speed corner vs medium speed corner has what significance?.

I am from Austria so no, I actually don’t know how much an inch is. But I live a few kilometers from the Red Bull Spielberg racing circuit. Literally - and I know how much a kilometer is

My point was, that max was waaaaaay fuether off the apex than lewis.

and sbout medium vs. low speed corner: that was a point in favor of Red Bull. And even considering this, it’s pretty hard finding arguments to think it was a legit move

[Shrieker]

https://streamable.com/zo111f

Steering wheel stop working mid-corner, or what?

credit to u/kj-ka- for the stabilization

Wanna see Max's onboard before I pass judgement, but it looks like another case of "haha, steering wheel go brrrrr" from him

[holeindalip]

Did anyone else notice after the race Toto removing his mask and saying “F*ck that mask”

[AeroDynamic]

Hamilton didn't go off the track as far as I remember? This today was clearly pushing your competitor off the track. That is his attitude. As soon as you are racing Verstappen in the corner he is going to push you off no matter what. The guy just clearly cannot race clean wheel to wheel. And that is just sad, because he is being "protected" by FIA by not even initiating investigation. Luckily Lewis managed to passed him.

Lewis got 10 second penalty in Silverstone. Max should have been penalised as well. At least they should have ordered him to give the position back immediately.

And booooooy that radio between RB and FIA with that "Let them race" bullshit. They were not speaking like that when Max was in the barriers. Pathetic from them.

Just to be clear, not a fan of Merc neither RB.


On the other note. Congrats to Lewis, that was a GOAT drive this whole weekend. Got penalised, kept his head down, clinical and cold in the race. What a race.

Lewis id take the racing line in Bahrain, and Max ha no choice but to go off the track there.

Lewis got a 10-second penalty but his fans were here on this very forum talking about how that was a racing incident, a narrative that just looks plain silly in hindsight. They can't have it both ways the Merc fans, they cannot say that it is racing incident when your driver does it and it is the devil himself when the other driver does it.

Lewis tried to stick it onto racing track, while Max didn't even bother making the corner. it is not comparable at all.

Now Bahrain... Please where did here Lewis pushed Max outside? Max stomped on the pedal and went outside the track. Again didn't bother to take the corner no matter the cost.



To me that is incompetence on max side managing the corner when wheel to wheel

Apples and oranges. One is on track, the other is orbiting the circuit