2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[djones]

Although not legal and should technically have a penalty, the overtake under SC is not really the big game-changer here IMO.

The last lap was not a legal lap as per the rules. This is what they will be pushing hard I would guess.

[mzso]

It’s unbelievable that both drivers really behaved well and drive great races but the FIA still independently found a way to **** it all up and ruin the race and the season.

Have to agree with you there. And just why. RB won on strategy if the regular restart procedure was followed, or MB won on strategy if they left the SC to finish, but FIA somehow made it controversial by screwing around with overtaking.

Exactly. They just did what they always do and half arsed their own rules and fudged it. It’s a more farcical end to the season than any of us could have imagined!

Verstappen and Hamilton should both hold their heads up high though. None of this was either of their fault.

If the race was 59 laps long then all the procedure can play out properly and although it’s tough for Hamilton, Verstappen can win controversy free. Masi was in a tough spot as the championship was resting on his decision, but he abandoned protocol out of desperation to get the mess we got.

Ah well. Hopefully the joker goes back to working on Aussie lawnmower racing or whatever he was doing before he was given a job he’s not capable of doing!

It's a perfect representation of the season and FIA's competence!

What's miraculous is that the person who earned it won in the end... (as things stand now)

[gshevlin]

First off, you really don't want F1 affairs and events to be subjected to any external justice system. Every time an F1 team owner has appeared or been involved in a court case, they have come across as duplicitous and shady, and the courts have commented on that.
That is before you consider that allowing commercial litigation to occur could effectively "freeze" disputed championship results for years. The wheels of justice do grind, but they grind very slowly.
If Mercedes is going to appeal on the grounds that not all cars were allowed to unlap themselves, I do not see this as a winning argument from a result perspective. The Race Director moved all cars between Verstappen and Hamilton out of the way with his instruction. Moving the remaining lapped cars out of the way would not have had any impact on the contest between Verstappen and Hamilton.
Getting the result changed after the fact will be extremely damaging for the FIA and the sport, but arguably we are here because the FIA did NOT utilize that power in the past when F1 races were decided in an odd or unsporting fashion. The stakes are high here. If the FIA does change the result, Red Bull may withdraw. They do not need F1 in any commercial sense. Equally, if the result is not changed, Mercedes could withdraw, since they have had 7 years of continuous dominance. They may feel that they have reached the point (like today) where they can only generate headlines if they do NOT win.

[mzso]

I believe someone should sit down with Masi and reflect on the decisions he made. Give him some insight into his actions so he can learn not to make these mistakes again. I believe he is a good guy that can improve himself as race director. I am not for firing him. It is a tough spot to fulfil and letting him go is not a guarantee for a better future.

I think the (sporting) rulebook should be doused in petrol and burned. And rewritten from scratch by sane people.

Also race control and stewarding should be destroyed and again rethought and rebuilt from the ground up.

They would probably be better off using AI for most circumstances.

[Dr. Acula]

Just re-watched the onboard. Looks like he did.

An overtake under SC, is a position gained. Did Max gain position under SC? No. Has that happened in the past where under safety car, the car ahead and behind are side by side, or nose ahead of car behind? Yes. DId the leader not start in his position when it was a go? Yes he did.

Huh? No Ryar, he’s not allowed to go past him at all. No overtaking before the safety car line. Lewis becomes the ‘pace car’ before the restart

That's not true. A driver can pass a another car in front of him during a safety car, as long as he gives the position back immediatly. I could show you probably a dozen of such incidents which happend over the years and none of them ever got penalized. I only remember one case which was penalized, that was now more then 27 years ago and is today generally regarded as a mistake by some overambitious stewards.
The FIA does not lay out the rules in this case word for word.

[littlebigcat]

The question is, what is the definition of an "overtake"? Nobody clearly knows. Is that one millimeter ahead, nose ahead, front wheels ahead or a whole car ahead? It's that vague.

If they had crossed the safety car line at that point who would be the one crossing it first?

[nimoraca]

I guess we are going to get a champion in the stewards room or, even worse, at the The International Court of Appeal. Even though "nobody" wanted that, FIA didn't "not want" it enough.

[Restomaniac]

First off, you really don't want F1 affairs and events to be subjected to any external justice system. Every time an F1 team owner has appeared or been involved in a court case, they have come across as duplicitous and shady, and the courts have commented on that.
That is before you consider that allowing commercial litigation to occur could effectively "freeze" disputed championship results for years. The wheels of justice do grind, but they grind very slowly.
If Mercedes is going to appeal on the grounds that not all cars were allowed to unlap themselves, I do not see this as a winning argument from a result perspective. The Race Director moved all cars between Verstappen and Hamilton out of the way with his instruction. Moving the remaining lapped cars out of the way would not have had any impact on the contest between Verstappen and Hamilton.
Getting the result changed after the fact will be extremely damaging for the FIA and the sport, but arguably we are here because the FIA did NOT utilize that power in the past when F1 races were decided in an odd or unsporting fashion. The stakes are high here. If the FIA does change the result, Red Bull may withdraw. They do not need F1 in any commercial sense. Equally, if the result is not changed, Mercedes could withdraw, since they have had 7 years of continuous dominance. They may feel that they have reached the point (like today) where they can only generate headlines if they do NOT win.

If it goes to court it’s an open and shut case. The very second Masi allowed lapped cars to pass the rules are crystal clear it must end under a SC. There is no grey area.

[Macklaren]

Just re-watched the onboard. Looks like he did.

An overtake under SC, is a position gained. Did Max gain position under SC? No. Has that happened in the past where under safety car, the car ahead and behind are side by side, or nose ahead of car behind? Yes. DId the leader not start in his position when it was a go? Yes he did.

that's now what the rules say.
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -12-08.pdf

48.8

With the exception of the cases listed under a) to h) below, no driver may overtake another car
on the track, including the safety car, until he passes the Line (see Article 5.3) for the first time
after the safety car has returned to the pits.

The question then becomes what constitutes an "overtake"? Technically, putting your wing in front DOES constitute an overtake...but under SC conditions? esp. if you give it back after 1 second?

I think this season has made it very clear that there is far too much ambiguity in the regulations -- even blac-and-white rules, let alone sporting reg/driving behavior rules

[Hoffman900]

Can Mercedes also stand on their participation in the sport is contingent on agreeing to rules, and if they aren't enforced, that's a breach, and then can be awarded "damages"?

[214270]

VER definitely overtook HAM, visually we can see this. The difficulty is they may rely on the timing beacons in the vicinity & I don’t think it would’ve been picked up for as brief a moment it was.

[BrunoH]

Mercedes shoud be ashamed. 1 lap, nothing happens... 2 asking for not having a safety car during VSC ( like he decided what is safe for the track and drivers over the race director... ) and then --- at the end? Mercedes should be ashamed to try and win the championship like this, and F1 will have a huge credibility problem if they take out Max, and Honda win... shame on them!! they make themselfs the Paladins of morality when winning but they lose now and they have shown what they really are. im glad i bought a bmw 2 months ago.... Mercedes #shameonyou

[popovic94]

After 18 years of watching every race, I will seriously reconsider watching next season. Both drivers this season deserve title, but not Michael NOT this way, whole season inconsistency in decisions and making artificially drama in pinnacle of motorsport. This season was yoke, gp2 race director.

[Phil]

Max had no business being next to Lewis on the restart. Quite frankly, Lewis was compromised on “doing his thing”. If you put your car side by side, fair enough, but then the penalty is clear if you get ahead?

[Shakeman]

I pity those who think what happened today was acceptable, what we're seeing is the Netflixisation of F1 purely manufactured entertainment rather than racing to the limit. I've been watching F1 for over 40 years and my gut reaction is that I'm done with this.

I feel for the engineers who work tirelessly to shave tiny fractions of seconds of the lap time of their car when this happens. Merc in the hands of Hamilton was the class of the field today an imperious display that was reduced to a lottery by weak or incompetent race direction.

I thought Lewis's class and his dad's showed through, if I were in that position I don't think I would've been able to behave with such dignity.

'Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?' - John Joseph Lydon Esq.