2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[El Scorchio]

Normal procedure would have finished under SC, or at very least given sainz a run for the win.

How can you glance over the glaring issue of sainz and many others races being neutralized whilst only Max's wasn't? That's rigging.

Vettel was also complaining that the cars he could have passed were gifted a lap over him!

Just forget about max and Lewis fir a second and the issue becomes more grave. The sport was rigged by way of stopping all cars racing apart from max.

The sport was rigged the moment Masi decided lapped cars weren't allowed to unlap themselves.

No he absolutely don't have to let them through... the funny part is he didn't want to let them through coz he knows the rule that then he has to wait one more lap to pull the safety car in (hence it would have finished under SC).

So he wanted to have one lap race but if he let go lapped cars then they can't have it. Hence his initial decision to no let them through.

Now he succumbed to pressure by redbull and did both which is against the rules and hence its being called rigged

Exactly. You either let them all through or you let none of them through. Those are the two options in the regulations. Letting none through is harsh on Verstappen under the circumstances, letting all of them through in the way is is supposed to be done is also harsh on Verstappen. Letting them all through the way it should have been done a lap earlier is harsh on Hamilton, BUT all these three options would have been perfectly by the book and each driver could curse or praise their luck. However, he deviated from the regulations to intentionally and artificially create a certain situation and influence the outcome of the race. In any other sport, whether it's by intent or stupidity, that's match fixing.

None of this is Red Bull, Verstappen, Mercedes or Hamilton's fault. They are all innocent parties who either benefitted or lost out from this. But at the end of the day, Michael Masi essentially rigged the result of this race and therefore by extension the WDC by purposely deviating from the written rules of the sport in order to influence a certain outcome.

[mzivtins]

This is nonsense.
The track was clear with 3 laps to go. You could see a perfectly clean track when the tractor with the Williams left the track. The track was perfectly clean once the field passed the scene on the second to last SC lap.
The big error was that the director did not allow the unlapping immediately once the tractor left. The back and forward decisions on how to follow the rules or not made it too short.
The unlapping was surprisingly quick...usually it takes longer, so it was a right decision to do it like this as time was too short to do anything else.

The simple error was not to start the unlapping before turn 1.

Err, no- the unlapping wasn't 'short'. It was never allowed to happen as per the regulations. The race director selectively let certain cars pass while refusing others the same right just in order to get car 33 right behind car 44 and stuff everyone else, including car 55 who should have been allowed to be right behind 33.

No, there is no rule saying this. The first rule is that the race director has the right to say what is going on, which overrules all others.

I am surprised that Ham fans here now try to use Sainz in their discussion. This is utterly stupid.
He would not have played any role when Ver dive bombed Ham before the long straight. The only thing Sainz could have done is to go to the inside after the long straight and simple overtake Ham. This was a real risk in the scenario as the Ferrari had more top speed and would not have been compromised on the exit due to the dive bomb by Ver.

You are speaking as if you've seen the scenario that never happened and pushing it as fact.

Please touch base with reality first before making such outlandish posts.

The fact is, sainz should have been right behind max, outcome unknown. But that fact shows a preference to how the scenario played out which was entirely human controlled.

Do what you will with that information, but predicting the future and calling it fact is just Facebook Karen level thoughts at best.

[adrianjordan]

Having slept on this I still feel the race results were a farce.

I'll qualify this by saying that I am first and foremost a McLaren fan and would have no problem with Max winning the WDC, if it was all done cleanly - so if the race had been 1 lap longer or the accident 1 lap earlier then they could have stuck to the regulations and still had a lap of actual racing. It's refreshing to have a different champ, it sets up a nice narrative for next season with Lewis fighting back to try and regain his crown.

What happened yesterday leaves a bad taste in my mouth though. Why wasn't Sainz allowed an opportunity to join in the race at the front? He could have had a chance of 2nd. Why was Vettel allowed to unlap, but Riccardo wasn't, meaning Dan had no chance of challenging Seb for an extra position?

This sets a dangerous precedent for the future and I sincerely hope that there is a root and branch overhaul of the way races are stewarded before next season.

They're billing 2022 as the start of a new era, so let's also have it be a new era of consistency in the way rules are applied to all drivers.

I'm used to high pressure situations and making split second decisions etc in my professional job. And mine are often life or death. Where do I apply for Race Director?

As for comments around the Team Principles lobbying Massi. I think both were as guilty as each other yesterday and, whilst it is entertaining for us as the viewing audience to hear, I think there needs to be something done about that.

[101FlyingDutchman]

While reading this thread I realize why people belief in aliens, illuminati, computer chips in injections.

Because the reality is too hard to handle.

That we are all just a bunch of guys on a planet trying to do well to our own accord, that the race director might think: "--- it i don't ant to end this season in a yellow flag, let's get it going" and "with 4 cars in between there is no fight". And this all in a matter of minutes, fractions of seconds, making a call. It's like being on the high way being distracted for a second because you open your phone and making a crash. He might regret, he might not, but life is not pre-planned. These guys there are just like yourself, flawed, distracted, emotional.

In my experience, we are all just human, we make calls, say things, make decisions in fraction of seconds, that might influence our whole lives and the lives of others for better or good. That's why we shouldn't give individual humans too much power because all of us are this flawed even though they might present themselves very different.

We grew up with the concept of fairness. But fairness doesn't exist. Even in the court of law Judges give different sentences after lunch vs before lunch. Because unaware judges want to get it over with before lunch and punish harsher. After lunch they are more relaxed and more compassionate.

Law, rules, are just man-made. They are no laws of god or nature whatever you prefer to call it. Hence they are flawed, need to be interpreted, every situation is different. Many people think they know what is true or not true when I read the posts here.

I think that's naive. Take a step back. Go to the moon. Look at yourself. All angry and frustrated about the outcome. Now who is wrong here. The obsession is the fault you're making. Life is unfair, because fairness is a man-made concept, it's a lie.

What is true though is that we saw an amazing season, full of emotions, which I'm grateful for, what a ride!

Enough preaching, have a great day lads.

Post of 2021. Merry Christmas all

[basti313]

Err, no- the unlapping wasn't 'short'. It was never allowed to happen as per the regulations. The race director selectively let certain cars pass while refusing others the same right just in order to get car 33 right behind car 44 and stuff everyone else, including car 55 who should have been allowed to be right behind 33.

No, there is no rule saying this. The first rule is that the race director has the right to say what is going on, which overrules all others.

I am surprised that Ham fans here now try to use Sainz in their discussion. This is utterly stupid.
He would not have played any role when Ver dive bombed Ham before the long straight. The only thing Sainz could have done is to go to the inside after the long straight and simple overtake Ham. This was a real risk in the scenario as the Ferrari had more top speed and would not have been compromised on the exit due to the dive bomb by Ver.

You are speaking as if you've seen the scenario that never happened and pushing it as fact.

Please touch base with reality first before making such outlandish posts.

The fact is, sainz should have been right behind max, outcome unknown. But that fact shows a preference to how the scenario played out which was entirely human controlled.

Do what you will with that information, but predicting the future and calling it fact is just Facebook Karen level thoughts at best.

You are completely loosing reality and even think this is true?
I am not pushing a fact, the fact is that Sainz had nothing to do with the outcome. And if he would have, it would not have been Ver. Sainz was on old hard tires. If anything he could have had a go at Ham after a compromised exit.

[DChemTech]

The only fact is that we do not know how the outcome may have differed, we can only speculate.
Like we can only speculate whether or not Max would have won in Bahrain if the track limits were guarded more tightly.
Like we can only speculate what would have happened if the FIA did not change the wing displacement margins throughout the season.
Like we can only speculate what would have happened if the pit stop rules were not meddled with - would Max have stayed ahead in Monza?
There have been many FIA/stewarding calls that potentially affected the outcome of the season and that were disputable. This one was certainly disputable, too, but it's not like this was the only one. If anything, it shows that the FIA has work to do on making a SMART-rulebook.

[TNTHead]

Quite a good wrap up about what happened yesterday between the teams and the stewards:
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... iert-2022/

english: https://www-auto--motor--und--sport-de. ... x_tr_hl=nl

I expect that next year the type of pressure on the stewards will be limited.

[tnajner]

Err, no- the unlapping wasn't 'short'. It was never allowed to happen as per the regulations. The race director selectively let certain cars pass while refusing others the same right just in order to get car 33 right behind car 44 and stuff everyone else, including car 55 who should have been allowed to be right behind 33.

No, there is no rule saying this. The first rule is that the race director has the right to say what is going on, which overrules all others.

I am surprised that Ham fans here now try to use Sainz in their discussion. This is utterly stupid.
He would not have played any role when Ver dive bombed Ham before the long straight. The only thing Sainz could have done is to go to the inside after the long straight and simple overtake Ham. This was a real risk in the scenario as the Ferrari had more top speed and would not have been compromised on the exit due to the dive bomb by Ver.

You are speaking as if you've seen the scenario that never happened and pushing it as fact.

Please touch base with reality first before making such outlandish posts.

The fact is, sainz should have been right behind max, outcome unknown. But that fact shows a preference to how the scenario played out which was entirely human controlled.

Do what you will with that information, but predicting the future and calling it fact is just Facebook Karen level thoughts at best.

In words of your favourite team director:
No, no, Mzivtins. That was so not right! no no

[Spoutnik]

Everyone saying "Merc are clueless they should've pit Hamilton" what the hell happened in Jeddah for no reasons ? They would look like fools if Hamilton had pitted and loses track position while the race finish under yellows
(NB : There was 99% of this happening under normal circunstamces [not a final + no Masi])

In the end as I said earlier the worst part of it isnt the "reversal" of Masi or the fact that Sainz was one straight away from Verstappen, but the fact that the ending of the SC was stated only when cars arrived at the Yas Marina hotel section. In 18 years of F1 I've never seen a SC ending stated so late. Of course it penalized Hamilton way more with hard tyres on a cold track but I mean under wet condition such things would led to discuter.
In a way Hamilton was caught in huge trap because there's no such things as let them race on 4sec a lap quicker tyres without anybody to attack Verstappen.

[banibhusan]

In my opinion firing Masi would barely solve the problem as long as the rules are ambiguous. In this case particular the SC rules should have been clear about lapped cars and there shouldn't be any "ifs and buts" or "the race directory having the final say". Anyways after this dramatic season, I am just curious to see the revenue of FOM and liberty media. They would have dragged it to the final corner if possible to keep it exciting and make up for the lost revenue from last year.

[Bill_Kar]

In my opinion firing Masi would barely solve the problem as long as the rules are ambiguous. In this case particular the SC rules should have been clear about lapped cars and there shouldn't be any "ifs and buts" or "the race directory having the final say". Anyways after this dramatic season, I am just curious to see the revenue of FOM and liberty media. They would have dragged it to the final corner if possible to keep it exciting and make up for the lost revenue from last year.

The thing is, in this case, rules are not ambiguous. They are black and white.

Race director went astray by a lot, that can't possibly happen without your bosses' approval.

Even if Masi is gone, nothing will really change. This is the new F1, simply.

[KeiKo403]

Let’s face it, Masi tried to solve the trolley dilemma.

By wanting to give Max a fighting chance he forced Lewis to lose the race and WDC.
By not wanting to have Lewis win the race and title under safety car he made the division he did.

Is there any legal precedent for that trolley problem?

[Spoutnik]

Let’s face it, Masi tried to solve the trolley dilemma.

By wanting to give Max a fighting chance he forced Lewis to lose the race and WDC.
By not wanting to have Lewis win the race and title under safety car he made the division he did.

Is there any legal precedent for that trolley problem?

Idk if there's a legal precedent, but imo he sould've just red flag the race and we could have a standing start on equal tyres which would have been amazing for the fan and for "business" as well.

[El Scorchio]

Let’s face it, Masi tried to solve the trolley dilemma.

By wanting to give Max a fighting chance he forced Lewis to lose the race and WDC.
By not wanting to have Lewis win the race and title under safety car he made the division he did.

Is there any legal precedent for that trolley problem?

And I appreciate the dilemma. In a nutshell it was 'Do I follow the regulations and guarantee Hamilton winning the title, or do I throw the regs in the bin, make up some new ones and provide a blockbuster last lap shootout.

You can see why option b is appealing for marketing the product and 'the show', but it's simply not an excuse for throwing the regs out of the window, particularly in his role as the person being specifically tasked with applying the regs accurately in races.

[ArcticWolfie]

Let’s face it, Masi tried to solve the trolley dilemma.

By wanting to give Max a fighting chance he forced Lewis to lose the race and WDC.
By not wanting to have Lewis win the race and title under safety car he made the division he did.

Is there any legal precedent for that trolley problem?

Idk if there's a legal precedent, but imo he sould've just red flag the race and we could have a standing start on equal tyres which would have been amazing for the fan and for "business" as well.

Red flag for no damage to the barriers is questionable as well. But they couldn't extend the race due to fuel limits, so I call a vote to bring back refuelling!