2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[Starkblood80]

Seems like raw nerves here. I won't stop. Lewis should have been disqualified in Silverstone. Period.

Please do stop. I was annoyed at Silverstone too. I think it would have been more just if Lewis DNFfed there, too. But that is not how things played out. That doesn't mean we should ask for disproportional penalties - a DSQ is not a proper penalty for what is essentially a racing accident, even if one driver can be blamed a bit more than the other. And continuing to call for that does not reflect well on Max fans (of which I am one). We're already outnumbered here, let's at least keep a bit of class.

Isn't it easy to ignore posts, instead of coming back at a poster and telling, "stop". Nobody does. I would appreciate people arguing on, but bossing around saying, "stop", is not acceptable. If there are points, feel free to put forward and and debate on.

Wait, you just accused a member of ignoring posts while simultaneously ignoring the majority of their post?
I’m sorry but your repeated, constant trolling and gaslighting of other forum users really should be bought under control.

[Aesop]

You are right, max didn’t win because he was lucky, he won because of race manipulation by the officials who should be impartial.

Max won because yesterday he was lucky. He almost lost because Masi was too hesitant about letting lapped cars unlap. That's the main point.

I’m sorry but what transpired last night had absolutely nothing to do with luck and it takes an incredible amount of mental gymnastics and I suspect a good deal of bias to think otherwise

It had everything to do with luck. Max was extremely lucky with the safetycar, no gymnastics or bias needed.
Bias comes in to play when judging the handling of Masi. He made a mess of it but in the end did the right thing, allthough I can understand opinions differ on that.

[javspace]

I've spoken to a lot of friends, family, colleagues who don't usually follow F1 but just tuned in yesterday and they all think the ending yesterday was stupid. Yesterday was a massive opportunity to gain new fans to the sport but most people sound like they are put off because it just seems ridiculous.

Most people can see that one man dominated that race and deserved to win but it was arguably robbed from him by either bizarre rules or dodgy decisions. A lot of people think F1 is a stupid sport or not even a sport and I think yesterday will have reinforced that opinion in those people.

That's the biggest shame for me and I was actually a bit embarrassed trying to explain this to people who know I'm a huge fan of the sport. Makes me look stupid as well.

Either driver would have deserved the championship based on the whole season. A shame it had to end this way.

I can't imagine that most "non-f1 fans" would be in disagreement over what happened. In their eyes, instead of a boring winner being 10 seconds up the road with no hope to be caught or passed, they got to see a last lap dash to the finish.

How would they know about the tire advantage if they don't follow the sport? How would they have known the procedures for a f1 restart during a safety car period? How would they know the respective advantage and disadvantage when factoring in pit times and who has which options available to them?

Sorry mate. The non-fans got exactly what they wanted. Last lap drama without the requirement for any brain cells whatsoever.

I'm not saying it's right - but yesterday, the "show" was chosen above all else.

And to all the Verstappen supporters in this thread who think the decision was right... how would you have felt if Max had dominated the race with a 10s gap and then have it all go to tears because the race director decided to throw all the procedures out the window and enable Hamilton on fresh softs a chance at overturning a one-sided 50 lap race up to that point? There's only really one answer.

Throw all procedures out?
There's so much hysterics here.
A few have actually thought reasonably about how it was a difficult situation for the officials.
It's totally expected, normal, proper motor racing to restart if the track is clear.
Lapped cars were moved out of the way, as they always are, but this was decided last moment so it would be cutting it too close to let everyone through.
The officials were probably in a near panic trying to make sure they made the best call they could, and it took them time.
If they made a quick bad decision, you'd be complaining about that instead.
This hysterics about article 4.854.48843.6 not being exactly like the officials decision is an extremely rigid, autistic meltdown type of reaction to a completely reasonable decision made in the spirit of the rules.

Why do you care so much? If they put all lapped cars ahead earlier like they could have, yes that would have been more fair to Vettel etc, of course it wasn't perfect, but these are humans making decisions and the outcome would have been the same if they did it right.

Let's be clear. The track was cleared fast enough to warrant:
1) a restart
2) lapped cars going ahead

The outcome would have been the same if they made a more correct quicker decision! So stop foaming at the mouth because your favorite driver lost for once.

Think I'm too biased? I think Max should have been disqualified in Jeddah.

Your being selective with your judgment there. The other option was to leave the cars where they were. I mean that was their first call before they changed that notion. Chance played the cards that way due to the crash and they should have left as that, with max stopping and having the lapped cars between himself and Hamilton. It was them trying their luck and rightly with nothing to lose they did. The argument is, for many, by removing the cars in between it left nothing to the original chance that was created but instead manipulated to have a race off between the two title contenders, knowing the outcome was inevitable

[El Scorchio]

From the BBC: (Few tidbits from a longer article here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59639828)

Lewis Hamilton said over his team radio at the end of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix that the race had been "manipulated", it has emerged.
The Mercedes driver was magnanimous in his interviews after the race, which ended in controversial style after a late-race safety car period.
But on the final lap, after rival Max Verstappen had passed him, Hamilton said: "This has been manipulated, man."
Mercedes have lodged an intention to appeal over the handling of the race.


A number of other drivers have expressed confusion and scepticism about the way the race was restarted after a late safety-car period.
McLaren driver Lando Norris said: "It was obviously made to be a fight. It was for the TV of course. It was for the result," Norris said. "Whether or not it was fair, it was not up to me to decide." "Sometimes they let you go, sometimes they don't. It's just 50-50 half the time. But they said that they're not going to let us past, so I was guessing that was a message to say they were just not going to let us past at all. "To suddenly do it just for the final lap and for a one-lap shootout, I'm a bit surprised by."

Norris's team-mate Daniel Ricciardo said: "I'm honestly just speechless. I don't know what to make of all that, I really don't. I need to see how it all came about."

Ferrari's Charles Leclerc called the decisions "a bit weird".

I heard Lewis saying that. From his perspective understandable.
And I agree with drivers questioning the decision making. Not sure what the mentioned drivers think would be fair, but Alonso was quite clear about that: they should've let him unlap much earlier. He is right.

And I don't think anyone would have any argument to the contrary if it was all done in line with procedure IF it was safe to unlap the cars earlier then they should have done, although I have heard it said that actually the track wasn't clear until lap 57 and you cannot unlap cars before that. If there isn't time to do the procedure properly and by the book, then it shouldn't be fudged and half done in order to engineer a specific scenario, which is what we got.

[Ryar]

Please do stop. I was annoyed at Silverstone too. I think it would have been more just if Lewis DNFfed there, too. But that is not how things played out. That doesn't mean we should ask for disproportional penalties - a DSQ is not a proper penalty for what is essentially a racing accident, even if one driver can be blamed a bit more than the other. And continuing to call for that does not reflect well on Max fans (of which I am one). We're already outnumbered here, let's at least keep a bit of class.

Isn't it easy to ignore posts, instead of coming back at a poster and telling, "stop". Nobody does. I would appreciate people arguing on, but bossing around saying, "stop", is not acceptable. If there are points, feel free to put forward and and debate on.

Wait, you just accused a member of ignoring posts while simultaneously ignoring the majority of their post?
I’m sorry but your repeated, constant trolling and gaslighting of other forum users really should be bought under control.

Seriously? Not sure what you are reading and going on about. I am asking people to ignore posts, rather than attacking posters. It's actually very easy. Read it properly please. You are confused. I either ignore or debate, no personal attacks from my side.

[Starkblood80]

Isn't it easy to ignore posts, instead of coming back at a poster and telling, "stop". Nobody does. I would appreciate people arguing on, but bossing around saying, "stop", is not acceptable. If there are points, feel free to put forward and and debate on.

Wait, you just accused a member of ignoring posts while simultaneously ignoring the majority of their post?
I’m sorry but your repeated, constant trolling and gaslighting of other forum users really should be bought under control.

Seriously? Not sure what you are reading and going on about. I am asking people to ignore posts, rather than attacking posters. It's actually very easy. Read it properly please. You are confused. I either ignore or debate, no personal attacks from my side.

Oh look, more gaslighting.

[Tom145145]

I don’t think Merc aim is to overturn the result, it’s just bad all round. They will just drag the FIA through the mud and bring out all the inconsistencies. All fans have been united on the FIA’s lack of consistency, just remove the idea of overturning the result and no one would want to race under the current system. Yesterday it was gifted to Max but next time it could be Alonso over Max.
But I doubt it’s going to get that far, the FIA will promise changes and Masi will leave/they will restructure after some back room dealing.

[KeiKo403]

I'm laughing so hard.

I mean not sure what they can do now to rectify, a shared WDC? is that laughable.

But the very least that needs to happen is Masi needs to resign.
I'm not sure how teams can race under him.

He was wrong at the time, as has been made clear yesterday

Making it clear after a controversial decision has already taken place isn’t the right time to come out and say “I got it wrong last time” if it were wrong before they should’ve corrected themselves at the time. A Mercedes Lawyer could easily argue that if the rules around “any doesn’t mean all” had previously been confirmed as “all” then I really don’t see where the FIA has left to turn.

[Starkblood80]

Max won because yesterday he was lucky. He almost lost because Masi was too hesitant about letting lapped cars unlap. That's the main point.

I’m sorry but what transpired last night had absolutely nothing to do with luck and it takes an incredible amount of mental gymnastics and I suspect a good deal of bias to think otherwise

It had everything to do with luck. Max was extremely lucky with the safetycar, no gymnastics or bias needed.
Bias comes in to play when judging the handling of Masi. He made a mess of it but in the end did the right thing, allthough I can understand opinions differ on that.

Are you a Redbull fan by any chance?
If Hamilton had beaten Verstappen in the exact same circumstances would you, being completely honest, have the same opinion as you have now?

[henry]

If what was required was a “show” then the perfectly legal option of restarting without the lapped cars passing the SC would have been much better. An initial scramble as Verstappen passed the lapped cars followed by most, if not all of the lap with the two best drivers absolutely flat out. As it was we got a simple pass early in the lap and a bit of a cruise thereafter. There would have been few complaints, aside from the obvious lap1 incident, and for whoever won the SC period would simply be a bit of luck, good or bad.

[101FlyingDutchman]

I can't imagine that most "non-f1 fans" would be in disagreement over what happened. In their eyes, instead of a boring winner being 10 seconds up the road with no hope to be caught or passed, they got to see a last lap dash to the finish.

How would they know about the tire advantage if they don't follow the sport? How would they have known the procedures for a f1 restart during a safety car period? How would they know the respective advantage and disadvantage when factoring in pit times and who has which options available to them?

Sorry mate. The non-fans got exactly what they wanted. Last lap drama without the requirement for any brain cells whatsoever.

I'm not saying it's right - but yesterday, the "show" was chosen above all else.

And to all the Verstappen supporters in this thread who think the decision was right... how would you have felt if Max had dominated the race with a 10s gap and then have it all go to tears because the race director decided to throw all the procedures out the window and enable Hamilton on fresh softs a chance at overturning a one-sided 50 lap race up to that point? There's only really one answer.

Throw all procedures out?
There's so much hysterics here.
A few have actually thought reasonably about how it was a difficult situation for the officials.
It's totally expected, normal, proper motor racing to restart if the track is clear.
Lapped cars were moved out of the way, as they always are, but this was decided last moment so it would be cutting it too close to let everyone through.
The officials were probably in a near panic trying to make sure they made the best call they could, and it took them time.
If they made a quick bad decision, you'd be complaining about that instead.
This hysterics about article 4.854.48843.6 not being exactly like the officials decision is an extremely rigid, autistic meltdown type of reaction to a completely reasonable decision made in the spirit of the rules.

Why do you care so much? If they put all lapped cars ahead earlier like they could have, yes that would have been more fair to Vettel etc, of course it wasn't perfect, but these are humans making decisions and the outcome would have been the same if they did it right.

Let's be clear. The track was cleared fast enough to warrant:
1) a restart
2) lapped cars going ahead

The outcome would have been the same if they made a more correct quicker decision! So stop foaming at the mouth because your favorite driver lost for once.

Think I'm too biased? I think Max should have been disqualified in Jeddah.

Your being selective with your judgment there. The other option was to leave the cars where they were. I mean that was their first call before they changed that notion. Chance played the cards that way due to the crash and they should have left as that, with max stopping and having the lapped cars between himself and Hamilton. It was them trying their luck and rightly with nothing to lose they did. The argument is, for many, by removing the cars in between it left nothing to the original chance that was created but instead manipulated to have a race off between the two title contenders, knowing the outcome was inevitable

So you’re arguing they should have not used the rulebook and not let lapped drivers past just because it suits the outcome you want….

The point is that they weighed up what on balance the best way was to finish that race.

I would have understood if they finished behind the SC. I would have understood if they didn’t let any lap cars through. And I understand what they arrived at too (although I wished they immediately let lapped cars through). Whichever decision was made, someone would have felt robbed. The intention of the rules is to race in a safe manner. They are not and never have been black and white in all their details. They’re to be followed as much as possible but also varied if a situation demands it or can be justified.

Did we end up with a “most optimal” solution? I can say hand on heart, no. Any time pressured decision has a non optimal element. They’re having comms and input from lots of different channels, trying to get to a good solution. They are human….

[Starkblood80]

If what was required was a “show” then the perfectly legal option of restarting without the lapped cars passing the SC would have been much better. An initial scramble as Verstappen passed the lapped cars followed by most, if not all of the lap with the two best drivers absolutely flat out. As it was we got a simple pass early in the lap and a bit of a cruise thereafter. There would have been few complaints, aside from the obvious lap1 incident, and for whoever won the SC period would simply be a bit of luck, good or bad.

All things considered that would have been the fairest way to restart the race but then masi had Redbull in his ear about letting the cars in lap themselves. It seems masi is too influenced in his decisions by what the team principles want, just look at Toto begging for the safety car not to come out earlier in the race

[javspace]

If what was required was a “show” then the perfectly legal option of restarting without the lapped cars passing the SC would have been much better. An initial scramble as Verstappen passed the lapped cars followed by most, if not all of the lap with the two best drivers absolutely flat out. As it was we got a simple pass early in the lap and a bit of a cruise thereafter. There would have been few complaints, aside from the obvious lap1 incident, and for whoever won the SC period would simply be a bit of luck, good or bad.

This is exactly what should have happened, and despite the bad luck of the crash affecting Lewis more, it would have been left to the original chance/luck that was created and if Max had beaten Lewis by overtaking the lapped cars, which in theory he would have done pretty swiftly, it would have been fair game. Whether he caught up to Hamilton or not would have been left to chance and luck created by the crash and SC deployment.

[Tvetovnato]

I'm laughing so hard.

I mean not sure what they can do now to rectify, a shared WDC? is that laughable.

But the very least that needs to happen is Masi needs to resign.
I'm not sure how teams can race under him.

Merc's lawyer is going to have a field day in court with this, as well as other things related to Masi.

Max doesn't deserve it either and neither does Lewis. All on the FIA.

This is just saddening. Just 100 % proof that the rules have been breached. Tainted championship not only for Max, but will be for Lewis too if they were to reinstate him as winner since the controversy is already here, no matter how a deserving winner he is. That won’t of course happen since they will invent a new rule to cover for Masi’s idiocy here, however far fetched it may be. But the FIA has ruined the whole championship with this, no matter whose side you are on.

[Mattyw]

On a lighter note - the videos of Toto crowdsurfing from last night definitely the way to deal with it! Bottas looked wasted too