2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[Tom145145]

But this also has to be made clear also before the race. Like SC in the final 10 laps, will always be a redflag and standing start. Otherwise teams would still gamble a pitstop and be disadvantaged if the redflag comes a lap after the SC. (Like in Jeddah)

I like the sound of that rule

You could also just say no unlapping after 70% of the race. But I'm ok with standing start. It would have to be a percentage cause of varying number of laps at different tracks.

They could add as many rules as they want, if the race director can do whatever on the fly I doesn’t make a difference. The rules as they stand would have been fair.

[f1jcw]

I like the sound of that rule

You could also just say no unlapping after 70% of the race. But I'm ok with standing start. It would have to be a percentage cause of varying number of laps at different tracks.

They could add as many rules as they want, if the race director can do whatever on the fly I doesn’t make a difference. The rules as they stand would have been fair.

Thats the thing. The rules can be anything at aslong as they understood, followed and allow the teams to build a strategy around.

If rules are made on the fly none of the above can happen.

[Roo]

You could also just say no unlapping after 70% of the race. But I'm ok with standing start. It would have to be a percentage cause of varying number of laps at different tracks.

They could add as many rules as they want, if the race director can do whatever on the fly I doesn’t make a difference. The rules as they stand would have been fair.

Thats the thing. The rules can be anything at aslong as they understood, followed and allow the teams to build a strategy around.

If rules are made on the fly none of the above can happen.

The game maker on Hunger Games approach

Nightlock ?

[f1jcw]

They could add as many rules as they want, if the race director can do whatever on the fly I doesn’t make a difference. The rules as they stand would have been fair.

Thats the thing. The rules can be anything at aslong as they understood, followed and allow the teams to build a strategy around.

If rules are made on the fly none of the above can happen.

The game maker on Hunger Games approach

Nightlock ?

I mean Masi needs to go but that might be going too far

[Just_a_fan]

The whole flaw in the safety car system is that it does massively advantage/disadvantage competitors.

Motor races are supposed to be entertaining, it's the same for everybody. You win some, you lose some, "that's motor racing", it has an element of luck and randomness -- you can patch up that damaged car, catch a lucky safety car and get back in contention and we like that about motor racing!

"Some say, it's not the safety car, it's the entertainment control vehicle, all we know is that this is how we go motor racing since ~1985ish."

What next? Red flagged races are based on aggregate times?

Actually, motor races are about the competitors competing against each other. That's it. The "entertainment" bit is a bolt on invented by tracks etc., as a way of making extra money. Then TV got involved and even more money was made on the back of it. But ultimately, it's about the competition between cars and drivers.

Without fans there can still be races. Without competitors there is no race.

Classic case of putting the cart before the horse.

[Mogster]

Still torn on the result. Lewis himself seems reasonably willing to accept the outcome and move on, so who am I to protest on his behalf? Not to mention having the championship result decided in court would be hugely damaging to F1.

On the other hand, the FIA in the form of race director Masi very much interfered with the outcome of that race by breaking from all established precedent on that safety car restart. And if that restart turns out to breach the sporting code then the FIA is in a world of hurt, under the Concorde agreement Mercedes have every right to take their appeal to independent arbitration who will make the ultimate decision on whether the FIA followed their own rules.

So the FIA dismissing Mercedes appeal so far is largely meaningless, this matter will not end until either Mercedes accepts the result or the FIA proves to independent arbitrators that the restart was handled according to the established sporting code.

I can’t see Mercedes pursuing this. For one it’ll cause them reputational damage, and to Lewis also. What I can see happening is a hefty payment from the FIA to Merc and their dropping the legal proceedings being used as leverage in future dealings with the FIA.

When do they have to decide by? Thursday?

[Roo]

Thats the thing. The rules can be anything at aslong as they understood, followed and allow the teams to build a strategy around.

If rules are made on the fly none of the above can happen.

The game maker on Hunger Games approach

Nightlock ?

I mean Masi needs to go but that might be going too far

As a metaphor

[mwillems]

But this also has to be made clear also before the race. Like SC in the final 10 laps, will always be a redflag and standing start. Otherwise teams would still gamble a pitstop and be disadvantaged if the redflag comes a lap after the SC. (Like in Jeddah)

I like the sound of that rule

You could also just say no unlapping after 70% of the race. But I'm ok with standing start. It would have to be a percentage cause of varying number of laps at different tracks.

I'd have preferred a red flag in this situation. Both on Fresh tyres and the fight is more equal. Still a bit unfair on Hamilton but at least it isn't massively unfair to Hamilton. As it is Masi chose a way that made certain that Hamilton would lose.

This kind of situation makes me think of the tour de france and the processional final stage, in which the winner is allowed to ride it home unchallenged.

This would have been the sporting thing to do, the ethical thing to do and the fair thing to do.

As it was, they just decided to choose their own champion. It wasn't Verstappens good luck because they chose to not let anyone unlap initially. That decision was changed (possibly by coincidence, to give the benefit of the doubt) after a Red Bull protest.

It's ugly, really ugly and I don't like F1 right now. I support Mclaren and have not been fond of Hamilton for a long time, he just tells people what they want to hear and who's favourite fans are whatever country he happens to be in at the time and his driving just inspires nothing in me. But what happened is revolting and unfair and it has put me off this sport. I'm sick of F1 and I'm sick of Horner. He and Verstappen have been win at any means possible with little respect for the sport. Weaving, forcing off the track, crying like babies as if they are the victims of the world if they are punished for indiscretions. I'm surprised Hamilton hasn't retired, this has to tear your heart out to see something like that done to you.

[f1jcw]

Still torn on the result. Lewis himself seems reasonably willing to accept the outcome and move on, so who am I to protest on his behalf? Not to mention having the championship result decided in court would be hugely damaging to F1.

On the other hand, the FIA in the form of race director Masi very much interfered with the outcome of that race by breaking from all established precedent on that safety car restart. And if that restart turns out to breach the sporting code then the FIA is in a world of hurt, under the Concorde agreement Mercedes have every right to take their appeal to independent arbitration who will make the ultimate decision on whether the FIA followed their own rules.

So the FIA dismissing Mercedes appeal so far is largely meaningless, this matter will not end until either Mercedes accepts the result or the FIA proves to independent arbitrators that the restart was handled according to the established sporting code.

I can’t see Mercedes pursuing this. For one it’ll cause them reputational damage, and to Lewis also. What I can see happening is a hefty payment from the FIA to Merc and their dropping the legal proceedings being used as leverage in future dealings with the FIA.

When do they have to decide by? Thursday?

I don't get this reputational damage, they were cheated and the FIA need to post an admission to this.
Not sure why this would damage Lewis or Mercedes.

[f1jcw]

The game maker on Hunger Games approach

Nightlock ?

I mean Masi needs to go but that might be going too far

As a metaphor

It does highlight the risk of damages of changing the rules of the game on the fly.

[Spoutnik]

Code: Select all

https://twitter.com/vincenzolandino/status/1470467524416446469?s=20

Quite interesting team radios during the SC

[DrDejan]

Feel free to respond with data and not vitriol.

Easy:

Verstappen [Red Bull Racing - Honda] 10 wins, 18 podiums, 10 poles, 6 fastest laps
Hamilton [Mercedes-Benz] 8 wins, 17 podiums, 5 poles, 6 fastest laps

Red Bull's lead driver matched or outperformed Mercedes' lead driver in all major statistics in the 2021 season. QED.

Can you deny that there was manipulation by the regulator?

Letting lapped cars overtake was the right thing to do. It was important that the different tyre strategies the teams had decided on could play out, and that the race finished under green flag. Ideally, all 8 lapped cars would've been allowed to overtake so as to not disadvantage Sainz & Ricciardo (etc), but the Race Director had to make a compromise.

This wasn’t a compromise, unless you meant it’s “a change that makes something worse and that is not done for a good reason”. There weren’t two sides negotiating mutually beneficial agreement. This was a decision that favored a certain outcome.

[Hammerfist]

Nonsense. Max turned in on Lewis at Silverstone. The consensus was a racing incident as both drivers could have avoided the incident. You guys are getting annoying to just keep bringing this up when it was just another penalty that was given only because one of the competitors was taken out. In a perfect world, both guys crash out of the race. Stop bringing it up like Hamilton was solely responsible for it. Just stop.

Seems like raw nerves here. I won't stop. Lewis should have been disqualified in Silverstone. Period.

Please do stop. I was annoyed at Silverstone too. I think it would have been more just if Lewis DNFfed there, too. But that is not how things played out. That doesn't mean we should ask for disproportional penalties - a DSQ is not a proper penalty for what is essentially a racing accident, even if one driver can be blamed a bit more than the other. And continuing to call for that does not reflect well on Max fans (of which I am one). We're already outnumbered here, let's at least keep a bit of class.

[mwillems]

Feel free to respond with data and not vitriol.

Easy:

Verstappen [Red Bull Racing - Honda] 10 wins, 18 podiums, 10 poles, 6 fastest laps
Hamilton [Mercedes-Benz] 8 wins, 17 podiums, 5 poles, 6 fastest laps

Red Bull's lead driver matched or outperformed Mercedes' lead driver in all major statistics in the 2021 season. QED.

Can you deny that there was manipulation by the regulator?

Letting lapped cars overtake was the right thing to do. It was important that the different tyre strategies the teams had decided on could play out, and that the race finished under green flag. Ideally, all 8 lapped cars would've been allowed to overtake so as to not disadvantage Sainz & Ricciardo (etc), but the Race Director had to make a compromise.

This wasn’t a compromise, unless you meant it’s “a change that makes something worse and that is not done for a good reason”. There weren’t two sides negotiating mutually beneficial agreement. This was a decision that favored a certain outcome.

I'd say it ensured an outcome, rather than favoured.

[Andres125sx]

To really simplify what happened:

Mercedes believed that there won't be a safety car restart in 5 laps so they didn't change tyres.

Red Bull believed that there will be a safety car restart in 5 laps so they did change the tyres.

Red Bull's strategy worked better, and Verstappen won.

You missed a line, don´t worry I´ll fix it

T

o really simplify what happened:

Mercedes believed that there won't be a safety car restart in 5 laps so they didn't change tyres.

Red Bull believed that there will be a safety car restart in 5 laps so they did change the tyres.

Red Bull's strategy worked better thanks to a political and arguable decision from the Stewards wich ruined Mercedes predictions, and Verstappen won.