2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[Roo]

And they should retroactively give Lewis a 3s time penalty for gaining the track and leaving an advantage 29x in Bahrain, which (in the terminology used here - not my choice) 'handed' him the win, and we can probably think of a few more things. Just go through the whole season again and revise all decisions that potentially impacted the outcome of the championship?

Merc is trying to decide whether or not to launch an appeal to the results of this race. It has bad implications whatever they do. What I proposed is addressing the issue the last laps of this one race created.

The issues of all of this season would fill a library and we would get old talking about them.

The result has already caused irreparable damage though.At this point I hope Mercedes goes for it if anything for the FIA to get his --- together .

I agree; Merc need to go for it to ensure the pressure isn't applied to ignore a rule. Subjective areas like LH on the first lap isn't ignoring a rule/directive . There is a huge difference

[bonjon1979]

The message was displayed on the world feed through ESPN, so rule 48.12 does apply. As I’ve said the lapped cars that did go around Norris was just entering turn 3 and vettel was still entering turn one when Hamilton took off for green flag conditions

Well my answer might not be what you expect but it is simple as reading the rule, the wording in the rule does not compute with the half assed explanation the stewards came up with
Also
https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/14/mer ... gp-lawyer/

That lawyer is from the UK he is clearly biased. They don't have a good standing at a court, because first of all, CAS doesn't even have jurisdiction over the FIA, second even if they say that the last lap was invalid, that would shorten the race retrospectively, and hence not appropriate. With just 57 laps, this would not be a race according to the 2021 F1 Sporting Regulations, which requires a race to be at least 305km.

Half points then?

[ArcticWolfie]

Well my answer might not be what you expect but it is simple as reading the rule, the wording in the rule does not compute with the half assed explanation the stewards came up with
Also
https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/14/mer ... gp-lawyer/

That lawyer is from the UK he is clearly biased. They don't have a good standing at a court, because first of all, CAS doesn't even have jurisdiction over the FIA, second even if they say that the last lap was invalid, that would shorten the race retrospectively, and hence not appropriate. With just 57 laps, this would not be a race according to the 2021 F1 Sporting Regulations, which requires a race to be at least 305km.

Half points then?

No points at all and Verstappen still keeps the title.

[Redragon]

FIA will null the last race results if forced , meaning that the points will not be counted and that will give Verstapen the Championship as he is ahead on victories in that case. So Mercedes will have the legal result and Verstapen will continue as champion

[Tom145145]

That lawyer is from the UK he is clearly biased. They don't have a good standing at a court, because first of all, CAS doesn't even have jurisdiction over the FIA, second even if they say that the last lap was invalid, that would shorten the race retrospectively, and hence not appropriate. With just 57 laps, this would not be a race according to the 2021 F1 Sporting Regulations, which requires a race to be at least 305km.

Half points then?

No points at all and Verstappen still keeps the title.

I kind of agree and thought the same but you would have to apply this for the whole field which I don’t think is correct. This is a proper mess and I’m sure the FIA legal team are going mad atm.

[Alvareth]

FIA will null the last race results if forced , meaning that the points will not be counted and that will give Verstapen the Championship as he is ahead on victories in that case. So Mercedes will have the legal result and Verstapen will continue as champion

Exactly. They will not shorten the race as requested by the protest. Written very clearly in the reply.

[Starkblood80]

The message was displayed on the world feed through ESPN, so rule 48.12 does apply. As I’ve said the lapped cars that did go around Norris was just entering turn 3 and vettel was still entering turn one when Hamilton took off for green flag conditions

Well my answer might not be what you expect but it is simple as reading the rule, the wording in the rule does not compute with the half assed explanation the stewards came up with
Also
https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/14/mer ... gp-lawyer/

That lawyer is from the UK he is clearly biased. They don't have a good standing at a court, because first of all, CAS doesn't even have jurisdiction over the FIA, second even if they say that the last lap was invalid, that would shorten the race retrospectively, and hence not appropriate. With just 57 laps, this would not be a race according to the 2021 F1 Sporting Regulations, which requires a race to be at least 305km.

What was the race distance at Spa this year?

[Roo]

Half points then?

No points at all and Verstappen still keeps the title.

I kind of agree and thought the same but you would have to apply this for the whole field which I don’t think is correct. This is a proper mess and I’m sure the FIA legal team are going mad atm.

It’s a mess; whether it’s a legal mess is questionable. The easy solution is to give it Merc, I’m not sure RB would have much come back against that one decision.

They can shift some blame to the alleged comments by Horner and Masi for implimenting it.. Both get fired..

[Just_a_fan]

Well my answer might not be what you expect but it is simple as reading the rule, the wording in the rule does not compute with the half assed explanation the stewards came up with
Also
https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/14/mer ... gp-lawyer/

That lawyer is from the UK he is clearly biased. They don't have a good standing at a court, because first of all, CAS doesn't even have jurisdiction over the FIA, second even if they say that the last lap was invalid, that would shorten the race retrospectively, and hence not appropriate. With just 57 laps, this would not be a race according to the 2021 F1 Sporting Regulations, which requires a race to be at least 305km.

What was the race distance at Spa this year?

Exactly. Spa kills their argument that a race has to be full length. Indeed, the rules allow for shortened races and for less than full points to be given in such circumstances. Either way, they can't argue "all races only count if they're 305km long".

[Starkblood80]

That lawyer is from the UK he is clearly biased. They don't have a good standing at a court, because first of all, CAS doesn't even have jurisdiction over the FIA, second even if they say that the last lap was invalid, that would shorten the race retrospectively, and hence not appropriate. With just 57 laps, this would not be a race according to the 2021 F1 Sporting Regulations, which requires a race to be at least 305km.

What was the race distance at Spa this year?

Exactly. Spa kills their argument that a race has to be full length. Indeed, the rules allow for shortened races and for less than full points to be given in such circumstances. Either way, they can't argue "all races only count if they're 305km long".

Let’s be honest, there appears to be only one advocate of that argument and it seems a somewhat desperate attempt to internally justify what is objectively an unfair result.

[Poleman]

IIRC there was an official message on the screen "lapped cars will not be allowed to overtake" wasn't it? Correct me if im wrong. This only changed after Horner called Masi.I wonder what would be his answer if he gets asked "why did you change your decisinon/mind"? Everything that could be done wrong at the moment went wrong plain and simple.The guy made a huge mess.

[holeindalip]

IIRC there was an official message on the screen "lapped cars will not be allowed to overtake" wasn't it? Correct me if im wrong. This only changed after Horner called Masi.I wonder what would be his answer if he gets asked "why did you change your decisinon/mind"? Everything that could be done wrong at the moment went wrong plain and simple.The guy made a huge mess.

That’s correct, along with moments later lapped cars can overtake in sector2, then start of sector3 pace car in this lap…..

[diffuser]

Exactly that. Watching live on lap 56, it was clear that there's no way there was time for the cars to all unlap properly and for the final mandated SC lap to take place, before the end of the race distance, given the regulations. At that point was where Masi should have evaluated his TWO options as per the regulations and chosen one of them rather than dreaming up and actioning an until-then-non-existent third possible option/scenario/farce, which is what ended up happening.

What I don't understand, is why was it so goddamn important to finish under green flags instead of under safety car?

The least controversial option there was to finish under the safety car with the positions in place, because that's what it would have been according to the procedures in place. Before the crash and safety car, the race was pretty much done and dusted and there was little chance for Verstappen anyway. Wanting that last lap action, a potential red flag and standing restart is just from people who's driver either wasn't leading or who didn't realize that we had a 50+ lap race already that just unfolded with Mercedes/Hamilton doing the better job.

If Max had led the race start from finish, I guess as a Hamilton fan I'd be disappointed, but it would have been the correct and predictable result. They did the better job during qualifying, maximized everything and presumably won the race. It usually happens this way.

Not on Sunday: Mercedes seemingly had a quicker race car, Hamilton had the better start and he drove off into the distance.Then RedBull tried something different on strategy and it was a great race on who's strategy would prevail to the end; Would Hamiltons 1-stop race get him to the end? Would the tires drop off? Would he, if it'd be close, have enough in the tires to defend his position? That was the race.

I don't get this "red flag standing start" suggestions or even the wish to have a race on the last lap for the show because it takes away from the actual race that we had and got.

If the crash had happened earlier and RedBull ended up on the better tire? Tough luck. I don't believe for a second this race should have been treated any different than any other race on the calendar, championship deciding or not. Sometimes the chips just fall the way they do. But breaking protocol to manufacture a last lap race just between the top two drivers (because that's all there was, because the other cars didn't unlap)... it's artificial and really takes away from a great race we had before that point. And given how it played out, it wasn't fair either.

Cause he saw that Hamilton Didn't pit and was disadvantaged on older tires. If Hamilton had pitted and was behind Max, then Masi would have allowed them to finish under the safety car.

[PlatinumZealot]

Yeah...maybe Toto asked for it as Verstappen was catching Hamilton, and Toto thought that the race would be stopped !
At the end of the day, it was serious mismanagement of Mercedes that caused the problem. They were out thunk ! if they mirrored RBR, they would have won.

Please elaborate on how they would have won by mirroring RB.

Also, any strategy decision made by Merc OR RB, have NOTHING to do with the race director flouting the rules. Frankly this is a bit troubling coming from a mod.

Why is it troubling? it is an unbiased viewpoint from someone who has actually raced. nothing to do with being a mod....a golden rule of racing (and also mentioned by brundle) is to do what your competitor does. this means that they get no advantage . Had Merc called in Hamilton for a set of softs, he would still have been in front of Verstappen and held him off. Had Hamilton stopped and Verstappen not stopped, then their positions would have been reversed at the restart.....Verstappen out on older hards, and Hamilton on new softs. Result would then have been similar....Hamilton sweeping past Verstappen to win.
That is my PERSONAL opinion, like it or not.

Not sure about that one.

And remember all Max had to do was crash Lewis out to win. So this is a disadvatnage to Mercedes.

Safety car is called out on lap 54 (or whatever).

One lap to gather the pack.

The cran truck is a mile from the scene of the accident.

Two laps for the truck to reach on site.

One lap to strap the car to the truck and remove it. (or two...)

Two laps to sweep the track and repair the barrier.

Track is clear.

One lap to for lapped cars to unlap themselves.

One lap for the saftey car to return to the pits.

So you see that is six to eight laps for that the track to be green again under the normal rules. This is what Mercedes strategy was based on. And it was common sense too. And it is 100% chance for at least the six laps to pass under saftey car.

And the same reason why Horner was over the radio begging for "one lap to race" knowing full well the win would be handed over.

[InsaneX_Badger]

I thought if the race was over 50% completed full points we're awarded though?