2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[siskue2005]

I'd say it was the other way round, mostly the people who agree with the decision are Redbull/Max fans and they are not 99.99% of F1 followers.
Most F1 fans acknowledge that the rules were not correctly implemented.
and even those Redbull fans are lying to themselves if they think the end was implemented correctly and say otherwise, is to use your words Nonsense.

The only thing that Masi should have done differently in my view is either unlap all drivers or not unlap any driver.

And notify the teams what was going to happen. He could have had the same result but followed procedure.
I do not think it was intentional, but still a muff-up

Yes, he should have told the reason to horner when he asked why arent we unlaping the backmarkers. The reason being that if all car unlap there will not be any race laps left. If he had said that and acted accordingly it would have been a fantastic race finish with Max overtaking all 4 cars and side by side into last corner.
Max deserved that with the season he had... but what happened is unfortunate that there will an asterisk on his championship forever!

[f1jcw]

.
Hamilton indicated throughout the race that he did not agree with the tire strategy. Toto assumed Lewis would hold the lead until the end. That's why he didn't want a SC at the end. Masi made a decision and if Lewis had won the race, there would have been no problem, you wouldn't have heard from anyone about Masi doing something wrong.

99.99% agree?? Nonsense, mostly Lewis/Mercedes fans agree and they aren't 99.99% of the F1 followers.

I'd say it was the other way round, mostly the people who agree with the decision are Redbull/Max fans and they are not 99.99% of F1 followers.
Most F1 fans acknowledge that the rules were not correctly implemented.
and even those Redbull fans are lying to themselves if they think the end was implemented correctly and say otherwise, is to use your words Nonsense.

The only thing that Masi should have done differently in my view is either unlap all drivers or not unlap any driver.

which would have being correct under the rules and no one could have complained about. But he didn't do that, he made his own rules up on the fly.

[KeiKo403]

Why? Because Hamilton fans wants him to? Any man with integrity would fight out when he believes he did nothing wrong, unless forces beyond his control throw him out without giving a fair trial. Resigning means two things. Guilty and/or caving into bullying.

What fair trail?
He is already thrown out, if you had seen the new fia heirachy chart.
If he believes what he did is right then thats not defined as integrity, thats incompetence.
99.99% of the f1 fanbase and f1 expert (except some max fans) agree what he did was not right and the fia acknowledges this, hence the investigation!

Nonsense... I'm one of those who think he acted correctly at the time...

Even though there is a clear rule which states that any lapped cars must unlap themselves? And not all did, based on the decision of the race director. The same race director that only the year previous clarified that all must unlap too, leaving no room for interpretation of the written rules.

[Just_a_fan]

The only thing that Masi should have done differently in my view is either unlap all drivers or not unlap any driver.

Exactly so. All or none. That would have been according to the rules and no one could have called him out for it.

Bad tyre strategi cost Hamilton the title. He was the only one on that old tyres, 43 laps old tyres. After the race Toto blames Masi and the FIA. Toto and Hamilton are just SURE LOOSERS. They don’t belong in F1. During the seasong Toto even forced FiA by playing politics to rear wing change for RedBull and other teams. Back then Toto had no problem with Masi as long as FIA did what was Toto wanted.
SOUR LOOSERS.

Sigh. As has been explained time after time, Hamilton was on those tyres because he was leading and, had the rules as written been followed he would have almost certainly won from that point - either the race would have timed out or Max would have had to fight past a load of lapped cars and likely ran out of time to attack Hamilton. Hamilton couldn't have gone in for new tyres because he would have lost the lead and then been in the same situation as Max would have been if the rules had been applied correctly. This is all F1 101 stuff so it's surprising that it needs to be explained.

One thing that is often forgotten, I think, is that Max owes much to Perez. Perez allowed Max to close up to Hamilton by almost 10 seconds midway through the race - had that not occurred, Hamilton might well have had enough time to pit when the safety car came out and still get back out in front of Max even if Max hadn't pitted. Hamilton would have been 20+ seconds ahead of Max when the SC was called and, assuming it was called when he was favourably positioned on track, that would have been plenty of time to go for new tyres.

[f1jcw]

I never understood why they pitted Lewis so early after Max and come out behind Perez, I'd have continued going for a lot longer maybe long enough to come out in front of Perez, it seemed one of those unnecessary match whatever Max is doing strategies.

[nzjrs]

Exactly so. All or none. That would have been according to the rules and no one could have called him out for it.

Bad tyre strategi cost Hamilton the title. He was the only one on that old tyres, 43 laps old tyres. After the race Toto blames Masi and the FIA. Toto and Hamilton are just SURE LOOSERS. They don’t belong in F1. During the seasong Toto even forced FiA by playing politics to rear wing change for RedBull and other teams. Back then Toto had no problem with Masi as long as FIA did what was Toto wanted.
SOUR LOOSERS.

Sigh. As has been explained time after time, Hamilton was on those tyres because he was leading and, had the rules as written been followed he would have almost certainly won from that point - either the race would have timed out or Max would have had to fight past a load of lapped cars and likely ran out of time to attack Hamilton. Hamilton couldn't have gone in for new tyres because he would have lost the lead and then been in the same situation as Max would have been if the rules had been applied correctly. This is all F1 101 stuff so it's surprising that it needs to be explained.

One thing that is often forgotten, I think, is that Max owes much to Perez. Perez allowed Max to close up to Hamilton by almost 10 seconds midway through the race - had that not occurred, Hamilton might well have had enough time to pit when the safety car came out and still get back out in front of Max even if Max hadn't pitted. Hamilton would have been 20+ seconds ahead of Max when the SC was called and, assuming it was called when he was favourably positioned on track, that would have been plenty of time to go for new tyres.

I think this is basically what most reasonable people believe.

However, one plausible alternative outcome is that had the marshals been about 35s faster then there would have been enough time to get the lapped cars released and basically the story would totally be how important Perez was to the victory (for the reasons you say).

The only stupid opinion held by many is that this was a mess made out of bias. It was just a mess made to get racing underway and not finish under SC.

I look at the 3 or 4 possible outcomes like this

1. (what happened). Luck and bad Masi compromises give max a 90% shot at winning under green flag.
2. Race times out. 100% chance of Hamilton victory.
3. 35s faster marshals and cars unlap. 90% chance max victory, credit also to Perez.
4. Masi elects not to unlap cars. That's OK compromise. 60%? Chance Hamilton wins. Perez gets credit too.

Tldr; Perez great. Also considering the other outcomes possible - sometimes bad luck happens.

[dans79]

4. Masi elects not to unlap cars. That's OK compromise. 60%? Chance Hamilton wins. Perez gets credit too.

I think Max's chances would be closer to 10 or 15% in this scenario. The lapped cars are racing each other, and are not required to get out of the way until they pass 3 (if memory serves) marshals. Given the gap that builds during a rolling restart, and the number of cars between them, Lewis will have reached the end of the second strait before Max cleared the back markers, and I don't see Max getting by after that unless Lewis makes a mistake!

[nzjrs]

4. Masi elects not to unlap cars. That's OK compromise. 60%? Chance Hamilton wins. Perez gets credit too.

I think Max's chances would be closer to 10 or 15% in this scenario. The lapped cars are racing each other, and are not required to get out of the way until they pass 3 (if memory serves) marshals. Given the gap that builds during a rolling restart, and the number of cars between them, Lewis will have reached the end of the second strait before Max cleared the back markers, and I don't see Max getting by after that unless Lewis makes a mistake!

Yeah, you are probably right.

[PlatinumZealot]

I'm quite happy that Max won. He won more races during the season, for example, and did have 1 more DNF than Lewis. I don't think him winning the title needs justifying to anyone by anyone. Just as I don't think Lewis's title need to be justified to anyone.

Even this is in doubt if we account for Masi's actions!

Take away the two "Masi farce races," Belgium and Abu Dhabi and that leaves Max with 7 wins.

[siskue2005]

I'm quite happy that Max won. He won more races during the season, for example, and did have 1 more DNF than Lewis. I don't think him winning the title needs justifying to anyone by anyone. Just as I don't think Lewis's title need to be justified to anyone.

Even this is in doubt if we account for Masi's actions!

Take away the two "Masi farce races," Belgium and Abu Dhabi and that leaves Max with 7 wins.

Yes true, but Max will have 8 wins if masi farce races from belgium and abu dabhi was removed.
If lewis had won the abudahbi race without the farce, lewis would have had 10 wins to max 9 wins

[dans79]

Hopefully Masi will be gone by the first race, he simply isn't up to the task of doing what is a fairly simple job!

[sosic2121]

One thing that is often forgotten, I think, is that Max owes much to Perez. Perez allowed Max to close up to Hamilton by almost 10 seconds midway through the race - had that not occurred, Hamilton might well have had enough time to pit when the safety car came out and still get back out in front of Max even if Max hadn't pitted. Hamilton would have been 20+ seconds ahead of Max when the SC was called and, assuming it was called when he was favourably positioned on track, that would have been plenty of time to go for new tyres.

Many things had to happen for the race to end as it did(including Perez), but it's totally overlooked because Massi...

[AeroDynamic]

so, I haven't read all these pages, but some sensible conclusions appear to be at the forefront again at the moment. Did any of the members adopt a slightly different view yet, or change their minds at all?

[nzjrs]

Nah, this has always been my position - I just didn't bother expressing it for the last months because the forum was under-moderated and overrun by idealogues trapped in argument spirals.

[AeroDynamic]

So what’s the heart of the argument from those who say nothing was wrong? And does the argument still have legs or were they shot off