2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[DiogoBrand]

If you ask me, after tampering with the result of a Formula One title fight by making a decision outside of the sporting regulations, getting fired is the least you could expect.

[jumpingfish]

These 2 cars were supposed to get ahead of the SC before the restart of the race, but they weren't allowed to?



I'm sure that Masi is guilty and obliged to allow these two cars to do this. But would that save Hamilton from defeat? I really doubt. In the last race he finished second, losing only 7 points. Yes, he was in the lead, but being a leader does not equal winning the race, and even crossing the finish line first won't save you from defeat as it was in 2008.
Could Ham have done anything else throughout the season to have more than 7 points? Yes, he could. The biggest chance for this was the last lap in Baku, where he simply threw 25 points into the trash can.


I'm interested in something else.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/vide ... 82348.html

Why were there absolutely no investigations and no talks about what happened in the 3rd free practice in Abu Dhabi between Hamilton and Mazepin? In Jeddah, for the same creation of a dangerous situation, Ham received a second warning and at the next GP in FP3 his engineers are sleeping again? Where were the judges and where did they look? Imo, this should have been a third warning and an automatic drop of 10 places on the starting grid if Bono or whoever is in charge of communicating up-to-date information about the location of other drivers on the track does not understand the warnings.

If Masi had allowed two cars to overtake SC, or if Ham had been given a penalty for blocking Mazepin, history would have taken a completely different path and I am 100% sure that the relationship between Mercedes and Hamilton would be very strained, because everyone would think that he is not to blame for the loss. Considering Russell's possible speed, the situation in the Mercedes would have been clearly overheated. But this is speculation and all sorts of alternative scenarios, in fact Masi did not let two cars to overtake SC and Lewis finished second in the race.

[Ryar]

Why were there absolutely no investigations and no talks about what happened in the 3rd free practice in Abu Dhabi between Hamilton and Mazepin? In Jeddah, for the same creation of a dangerous situation, Ham received a second warning and at the next GP in FP3 his engineers are sleeping again? Where were the judges and where did they look? Imo, this should have been a third warning and an automatic drop of 10 places on the starting grid if Bono or whoever is in charge of communicating up-to-date information about the location of other drivers on the track does not understand the warnings.

If Masi had allowed two cars to overtake SC, or if Ham had been given a penalty for blocking Mazepin, history would have taken a completely different path and I am 100% sure that the relationship between Mercedes and Hamilton would be very strained, because everyone would think that he is not to blame for the loss. Considering Russell's possible speed, the situation in the Mercedes would have been clearly overheated. But this is speculation and all sorts of alternative scenarios, in fact Masi did not let two cars to overtake SC and Lewis finished second in the race.

Two problems that I see. First one, I always said, stewarding in general has been highly inconsistent and that has been a bigger pain than what happened in Abu Dhabi specifically. Second one, those making noises on behalf Hamilton for his loss, conveniently ignore everything else that happened (including point in above post), including teams' sloppiness across the year that contributed to him being in such a situation.

If you put Abu Dhabi with everything that happened, as the 4th race of the year and Silverstone or Hungary as the last race, emotions would be very different.

[mclaren111]

http://www.f1reader.com/#/news/exclusiv ... asi-301978


Go Masi...

[KeiKo403]

Yes, those 2 cars indeed should've been let through, but not only those, Schumacher too, who was much further back. There just wasn't time to Dunlap everyone, so either no one should've uncapped and racing resumed, or all cars Dunlap, we run out of time and end behind a safety car.

[KeiKo403]

http://www.f1reader.com/#/news/exclusiv ... asi-301978


Go Masi...

"Andretti would have done the same as Masi"....so would all Verstappen fans, so would all/most RBR or Honda fans. Doesn't make it right or legal

[siskue2005]

These 2 cars were supposed to get ahead of the SC before the restart of the race, but they weren't allowed to?

https://i.imgur.com/qhFLQIg.png

I'm sure that Masi is guilty and obliged to allow these two cars to do this. But would that save Hamilton from defeat? I really doubt. In the last race he finished second, losing only 7 points. Yes, he was in the lead, but being a leader does not equal winning the race, and even crossing the finish line first won't save you from defeat as it was in 2008.
Could Ham have done anything else throughout the season to have more than 7 points? Yes, he could. The biggest chance for this was the last lap in Baku, where he simply threw 25 points into the trash can.
https://i.imgur.com/NtI1TY2.png

I'm interested in something else.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/vide ... 82348.html

Why were there absolutely no investigations and no talks about what happened in the 3rd free practice in Abu Dhabi between Hamilton and Mazepin? In Jeddah, for the same creation of a dangerous situation, Ham received a second warning and at the next GP in FP3 his engineers are sleeping again? Where were the judges and where did they look? Imo, this should have been a third warning and an automatic drop of 10 places on the starting grid if Bono or whoever is in charge of communicating up-to-date information about the location of other drivers on the track does not understand the warnings.

If Masi had allowed two cars to overtake SC, or if Ham had been given a penalty for blocking Mazepin, history would have taken a completely different path and I am 100% sure that the relationship between Mercedes and Hamilton would be very strained, because everyone would think that he is not to blame for the loss. Considering Russell's possible speed, the situation in the Mercedes would have been clearly overheated. But this is speculation and all sorts of alternative scenarios, in fact Masi did not let two cars to overtake SC and Lewis finished second in the race.

If we are talking about penalties, please be careful as Max was beneficiary of that!
If they had disqualified Max for break check and his antics in Jeddha (proved by fia's own statement and telemetry) then things would have been different!
If they had given penalty or were even investigated his brazil antics aswell then lewis would have won the championship even if he didnt finish the race in abu dabhi.

And about the free practice incident between lewis and mazapin, its free practice session ffs, no one gets any serious penalty in practice session until its a crash or something black and white.

[_cerber1]

I don't understand at all why practice penalties should affect the race, qualifying and championship. Let it be a fine, or a punishment that will need to be worked out in the FIA, in the end you can take 10 minutes in the second training session from the failed team, but this is not correct as it is done now.

[DChemTech]

These 2 cars were supposed to get ahead of the SC before the restart of the race, but they
If we are talking about penalties, please be careful as Max was beneficiary of that!
If they had disqualified Max for break check and his antics in Jeddha (proved by fia's own statement and telemetry) then things would have been different!
If they had given penalty or were even investigated his brazil antics aswell then lewis would have won the championship even if he didnt finish the race in abu dabhi.

And about the free practice incident between lewis and mazapin, its free practice session ffs, no one gets any serious penalty in practice session until its a crash or something black and white.

Yes, we know, we know, you support Lewis. Max does everything wrong, Lewis does nothing wrong and when he does he shouldn't be penalized accordingly. Whenever the FIA makes a decision benefitting RB, all outrage. Whenever the FIA makes a decision benefitting MB, crickets. Especially if it was a decision that they've been talked into by Toto. But if they are talked into anything by Jonathan or Christian, the world ends.

Shall we just, leave it? This 'discussion' has gone through more circles than a typical f1 car over a whole season.

[Just_a_fan]

Two problems that I see. First one, I always said, stewarding in general has been highly inconsistent and that has been a bigger pain than what happened in Abu Dhabi specifically. Second one, those making noises on behalf Hamilton for his loss, conveniently ignore everything else that happened (including point in above post), including teams' sloppiness across the year that contributed to him being in such a situation.

If you put Abu Dhabi with everything that happened, as the 4th race of the year and Silverstone or Hungary as the last race, emotions would be very different.

All seasons have to-and-fro for various drivers so it's to be expected that some things done by the driver or his team will be sub-optimal or even plain wrong. That's a given. No team or driver has ever had a perfect season.

The issue with Abu Dhabi is that we had a situation where two drivers were in contention for the title but actions of the race director effectively decided the outcome directly in favour of one of those two drivers. That's the problem. It's like the ref in a football match heading in the ball for one side giving them the win.

And you mention Silverstone and Hungary. In Silverstone both drivers were involved and both drivers had a hand in the incident - just as they did in Monza. Indeed, Monza was down to a bad, very slow, pit stop for Max - had the team performed properly, he wouldn't have been near Hamilton in to the chicane. That's the to-and-fro again.

As for Hungary, that was straight up bad luck for Max. Just as Baku was for Hamilton - he didn't deliberately do anything to scupper his own chances - it was an accidental control input which the team then changed the design of to prevent happening again.

The issue with Abu Dhabi is that the race was decided by the official doing something that was not in the written rules as understood by all of the teams. The outcome can't be changed now, and it shouldn't be as Max is as worthy a champion as Lewis would have been. But what can be done is preventing the same off-script decisions determining races or championships again.

[DChemTech]

I don't understand at all why practice penalties should affect the race, qualifying and championship. Let it be a fine, or a punishment that will need to be worked out in the FIA, in the end you can take 10 minutes in the second training session from the failed team, but this is not correct as it is done now.

Because safety breaches should have consequence, and reality is that most penalties that are not applied to the race are inconsequential for the drivers/teams.

[NathanOlder]

These 2 cars were supposed to get ahead of the SC before the restart of the race, but they
If we are talking about penalties, please be careful as Max was beneficiary of that!
If they had disqualified Max for break check and his antics in Jeddha (proved by fia's own statement and telemetry) then things would have been different!
If they had given penalty or were even investigated his brazil antics aswell then lewis would have won the championship even if he didnt finish the race in abu dabhi.

And about the free practice incident between lewis and mazapin, its free practice session ffs, no one gets any serious penalty in practice session until its a crash or something black and white.

Yes, we know, we know, you support Lewis. Max does everything wrong, Lewis does nothing wrong and when he does he shouldn't be penalized accordingly. Whenever the FIA makes a decision benefitting RB, all outrage. Whenever the FIA makes a decision benefitting MB, crickets. Especially if it was a decision that they've been talked into by Toto. But if they are talked into anything by Jonathan or Christian, the world ends.

Shall we just, leave it? This 'discussion' has gone through more circles than a typical f1 car over a whole season.

I think with the media talking about the new radio evidence that apparently shows Masi following orders from RedBull in the closing stages, it gives more detail to what happened and is exactly the kind of thing that should be discussed here. If you dont wish to participate in such discussions, then you can always just not look in this thread instead of asking for it to be shut down and we should just "leave it" ?

[siskue2005]

I don't understand at all why practice penalties should affect the race, qualifying and championship. Let it be a fine, or a punishment that will need to be worked out in the FIA, in the end you can take 10 minutes in the second training session from the failed team, but this is not correct as it is done now.

Because safety breaches should have consequence, and reality is that most penalties that are not applied to the race are inconsequential for the drivers/teams.

So what do u think about race trasgressions like brake checking and pushing others off and preventing overtaking by dive bombing etc... so are they not safey breaches? Werent they consequential for the race and championship?

Ok ok now we understand - i have corrected your quote fom above...see below
Yes, we know, we know, you support Max/RBR/honda/lewis hater. So Lewis does everything wrong, max does nothing wrong and when he does he shouldn't be penalized accordingly. Whenever the FIA makes a decision benefitting merc, all outrage. Whenever the FIA makes a decision benefitting RB, crickets. Especially if it was a decision that they've been talked into by Horner/jonathan/Masi. But if they are talked into anything by Toto et al, the world ends


So if u want to leave the discussion or dont want to face the truth then please leave the coversation

[DChemTech]

I don't understand at all why practice penalties should affect the race, qualifying and championship. Let it be a fine, or a punishment that will need to be worked out in the FIA, in the end you can take 10 minutes in the second training session from the failed team, but this is not correct as it is done now.

Because safety breaches should have consequence, and reality is that most penalties that are not applied to the race are inconsequential for the drivers/teams.

So what do u think about race trasgressions like brake checking and pushing others off and preventing overtaking by dive bombing etc... so are they not safey breaches? Werent they consequential for the race and championship?

Ok ok now we understand - i have corrected your quote fom above...see below
Yes, we know, we know, you support Max/RBR/honda/lewis hater. So Lewis does everything wrong, max does nothing wrong and when he does he shouldn't be penalized accordingly. Whenever the FIA makes a decision benefitting merc, all outrage. Whenever the FIA makes a decision benefitting RB, crickets. Especially if it was a decision that they've been talked into by Horner/jonathan/Masi. But if they are talked into anything by Toto et al, the world ends


So if u want to leave the discussion or dont want to face the truth then please leave the coversation

Yes, I support Max, and no, not a Lewis hater. I have given my disapproval of the events that transpired in Saudi Arabia, although I think 'break check' is malicious framing - it was more improvidence, not intent. I do not for a minute think I am fully impartial, but I do try to judge as such. Silverstone was a racing incident in contrast to what some others claim, Hungary bad luck. So sorry, but your alteration of my quote is incorrect.

[DChemTech]

These 2 cars were supposed to get ahead of the SC before the restart of the race, but they
If we are talking about penalties, please be careful as Max was beneficiary of that!
If they had disqualified Max for break check and his antics in Jeddha (proved by fia's own statement and telemetry) then things would have been different!
If they had given penalty or were even investigated his brazil antics aswell then lewis would have won the championship even if he didnt finish the race in abu dabhi.

And about the free practice incident between lewis and mazapin, its free practice session ffs, no one gets any serious penalty in practice session until its a crash or something black and white.

Yes, we know, we know, you support Lewis. Max does everything wrong, Lewis does nothing wrong and when he does he shouldn't be penalized accordingly. Whenever the FIA makes a decision benefitting RB, all outrage. Whenever the FIA makes a decision benefitting MB, crickets. Especially if it was a decision that they've been talked into by Toto. But if they are talked into anything by Jonathan or Christian, the world ends.

Shall we just, leave it? This 'discussion' has gone through more circles than a typical f1 car over a whole season.

I think with the media talking about the new radio evidence that apparently shows Masi following orders from RedBull in the closing stages, it gives more detail to what happened and is exactly the kind of thing that should be discussed here. If you dont wish to participate in such discussions, then you can always just not look in this thread instead of asking for it to be shut down and we should just "leave it" ?

I have no problem with that discussion. I have a problem with those that keep screaming that the FIA is somehow a full-pro RB organization and that Max didn't deserve the championship over and over and over, and those failing to acknowledge MB's bouts of influencing the FIA etc.