2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[DChemTech]

I really think too much credence is given to the outcries of RB, especially Horner and Marko.
It's a lot of emotional talk, on how they see certain things. Nothing different from a soccer player or coach doing the same. Sure, wrong when it's done on the radio during a race because, as mentioned, attempts at influencing the race director in general should not be condoned. But influential? Hardly, I reckon. Just like those soccer players hardly succeed in influencing the ref (and are probably more likely to talk themselves into a card than seeing one handed to the opponent). Or look at society. Who is really influencing? People shouting in the streets, or backroom lobbyists that make subtle suggestions or nudgings? People shouting in the streets, like Horner et al., manage to gain a lot of attention and generate outrage with those who disagree (see this topic for case in point). But do they influence decisions? Hardly. They're mostly ignored, or arrested if they start getting in the way. Which is why I personally take more issue with the Mercedes lobby - it's more of a real lobby than an outrage machine, and more effective at that. Anyway, I won't play favorites, future regulations should be such that both approaches are infeasible.

I think you would be hard pressed to objectively argue that RB's lobbying via team radio had no influence on the decisions made by the RD/stewards.

And equally hard pressed to argue they definitively did. But that discussion has been had in the last few pages, and we seemed to have reached some sort of agreement there

[NathanOlder]

I really think too much credence is given to the outcries of RB, especially Horner and Marko.
It's a lot of emotional talk, on how they see certain things. Nothing different from a soccer player or coach doing the same. Sure, wrong when it's done on the radio during a race because, as mentioned, attempts at influencing the race director in general should not be condoned. But influential? Hardly, I reckon. Just like those soccer players hardly succeed in influencing the ref (and are probably more likely to talk themselves into a card than seeing one handed to the opponent). Or look at society. Who is really influencing? People shouting in the streets, or backroom lobbyists that make subtle suggestions or nudgings? People shouting in the streets, like Horner et al., manage to gain a lot of attention and generate outrage with those who disagree (see this topic for case in point). But do they influence decisions? Hardly. They're mostly ignored, or arrested if they start getting in the way. Which is why I personally take more issue with the Mercedes lobby - it's more of a real lobby than an outrage machine, and more effective at that. Anyway, I won't play favorites, future regulations should be such that both approaches are infeasible.

I think you would be hard pressed to objectively argue that RB's lobbying via team radio had no influence on the decisions made by the RD/stewards.

And equally hard pressed to argue they definitively did. But that discussion has been had in the last few pages, and we seemed to have reached some sort of agreement there

One thing to go against that is , we had originally been told by race control that lapped cars would not be allowed to unlap themselves, then RedBull had their say, and all of a sudden the lapped cars between Max and Lewis were told to get out the way.

This 100% points at influencing the ref doesn't it?

[morefirejules08]

I really think too much credence is given to the outcries of RB, especially Horner and Marko.
It's a lot of emotional talk, on how they see certain things. Nothing different from a soccer player or coach doing the same. Sure, wrong when it's done on the radio during a race because, as mentioned, attempts at influencing the race director in general should not be condoned. But influential? Hardly, I reckon. Just like those soccer players hardly succeed in influencing the ref (and are probably more likely to talk themselves into a card than seeing one handed to the opponent). Or look at society. Who is really influencing? People shouting in the streets, or backroom lobbyists that make subtle suggestions or nudgings? People shouting in the streets, like Horner et al., manage to gain a lot of attention and generate outrage with those who disagree (see this topic for case in point). But do they influence decisions? Hardly. They're mostly ignored, or arrested if they start getting in the way. Which is why I personally take more issue with the Mercedes lobby - it's more of a real lobby than an outrage machine, and more effective at that. Anyway, I won't play favorites, future regulations should be such that both approaches are infeasible.

I think you would be hard pressed to objectively argue that RB's lobbying via team radio had no influence on the decisions made by the RD/stewards.

And equally hard pressed to argue they definitively did. But that discussion has been had in the last few pages, and we seemed to have reached some sort of agreement there

None of us can argue our point with absolute certainty because we don't have access to an alterative reality where certain things did/didn't happen.
I think we can agree that going forward procedures need to be put in place in order to avoid a repeat of the more controversial aspects of last season.

[DChemTech]

I think you would be hard pressed to objectively argue that RB's lobbying via team radio had no influence on the decisions made by the RD/stewards.

And equally hard pressed to argue they definitively did. But that discussion has been had in the last few pages, and we seemed to have reached some sort of agreement there

One thing to go against that is , we had originally been told by race control that lapped cars would not be allowed to unlap themselves, then RedBull had their say, and all of a sudden the lapped cars between Max and Lewis were told to get out the way.

This 100% points at influencing the ref doesn't it?

Again, correlation does not imply causation. There were probably a million things going on at that point that potentially influenced the decisions being made; both the initial decision to not let lapped cars pass, and the later change of mind. We would not know how those decisions would have played out would Wheatley not have said this on the radio. But it is not surprising Wheatley did say this on the radio, considering how messages of this nature were allowed all season. It would have been surprising had he not made a message like this. Which is why messages like this should not be allowed.

[siskue2005]

Finally, Masi is replaced

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 98oPE.html

[dans79]

Finally, Masi is replaced

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 98oPE.html

Given his many screw-ups during his short tenure, it had to be done.

[PlatinumZealot]

Finally, Masi is replaced

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 98oPE.html

Thank God justice was delivered!

As race director he should be held to the highest standards of integrity. Faltering in the heat of the moment is no excuse to do what he did.

[djones]

Justice partly delivered. Very probably pre-agreed with Merc for dropping the appeal.

Hamilton unquestionably should have won the championship. It literally cannot be argued against that the championship was in the bag until the last few laps of manipulation.

So Hamilton still has no justice and Max has a tainted championship that will forever be known as a gift from Masi.

[dans79]

So Hamilton still has no justice and Max has a tainted championship that will forever be known as a gift from Masi.

It depends what Merc and Hamilton considered justice, to them a big fat asterisks might be enough!

[PlatinumZealot]

The asterisk is enough for me as I am fine with Max being world champion. Doesn't hurt. I'm glad for him.

The main thing Lewis can take from this is that everybody knows he did enough to achieve 8XWDC. His legend is still cemented and it's all a bonus from here on out.

[Tizz]

Finally, Masi is replaced

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 98oPE.html

Thank God justice was delivered!

As race director he should be held to the highest standards of integrity. Faltering in the heat of the moment is no excuse to do what he did.

Just replacing Masi will solve nothing. First of all, it is such a unique position that it is highly unlikely that they have anyone else better prepared for this chaotic position and will therefor deliver a better performance. They need a new way of controlling the races.

Apart from this, my vote is on Kimi as commissioner or whatever it is called. He doesn't need a rulebook to know what is right or wrong. The unpredictable outcome on tracklimits and overtakings issues is no good for anybody.

[AeroDynamic]

Finally, Masi is replaced

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... 98oPE.html

Thank God justice was delivered!

As race director he should be held to the highest standards of integrity. Faltering in the heat of the moment is no excuse to do what he did.

Just replacing Masi will solve nothing. First of all, it is such a unique position that it is highly unlikely that they have anyone else better prepared for this chaotic position and will therefor deliver a better performance. They need a new way of controlling the races.

Apart from this, my vote is on Kimi as commissioner or whatever it is called. He doesn't need a rulebook to know what is right or wrong.

Have you read the statement from the FIA?

[Ryar]

The asterisk is enough for me as I am fine with Max being world champion. Doesn't hurt. I'm glad for him.

The main thing Lewis can take from this is that everybody knows he did enough to achieve 8XWDC. His legend is still cemented and it's all a bonus from here on out.

Does driving cars 2 second a lap quicker with a subservient team mate counts as *? For some it does for sure.

[morefirejules08]

So can we take this as an admission by the FIA that what Masi did was categorically wrong?

[Tizz]

Thank God justice was delivered!

As race director he should be held to the highest standards of integrity. Faltering in the heat of the moment is no excuse to do what he did.

Just replacing Masi will solve nothing. First of all, it is such a unique position that it is highly unlikely that they have anyone else better prepared for this chaotic position and will therefor deliver a better performance. They need a new way of controlling the races.

Apart from this, my vote is on Kimi as commissioner or whatever it is called. He doesn't need a rulebook to know what is right or wrong.

Have you read the statement from the FIA?

I reacted on Platinums and others relief that Masi got the boot. Like I said, it solves nothing and they have nobody that would have doen a better job.

No, I read the article on motorsport. It doesn't tell you in any way how the "Abu Dhabi-situation" will be avoided. It states the the whole system will be changed but I did not really find how it will work in the future.