2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[Wouter]

Exactly,it was the right call. I wish the RedBull fans would stop trying to make it seem like a Mercedes mistake rather than a Masi match fix.

Then again, the only reason they are doing it is to try and give Maxs title some credibility, but unfortunately Masi took most of it away with the way the championship finished as people remember the ending more than what happens in the middle.

Masi did a good job. Don’t blame him for lost title.
BLAME tyre strategy of Merc. They had chanse twice during the race to change tyres, VSC and SC and did’t. That why they lost.
RedBull was far better starategy wise. BLAME MERCEDES TEAM and their mistakes.

People doing good jobs don't end up removed from their position.

.
Is that so? When Wolff gave this funeral speech in mourning clothes, that moment it became clear that Masi would be fired.
He demanded that someone should be sacrificed .

[morefirejules08]

Masi did a good job. Don’t blame him for lost title.
BLAME tyre strategy of Merc. They had chanse twice during the race to change tyres, VSC and SC and did’t. That why they lost.
RedBull was far better starategy wise. BLAME MERCEDES TEAM and their mistakes.

People doing good jobs don't end up removed from their position.

.
Is that so? When Wolff gave this funeral speech in mourning clothes, that moment it became clear that Masi would be fired.
He demanded that someone should be sacrificed .

Which rather proves Nathan’s point wouldn’t you say.

[Stu]

Anyone like to make a wager how long the smee argument with the same points made by the same people can go on for...?

Should we call call Guinness WRB,.. could we be close to breaking a world record here?

Could take years…..

[NathanOlder]

Anyone like to make a wager how long the smee argument with the same points made by the same people can go on for...?

Should we call call Guinness WRB,.. could we be close to breaking a world record here?

Could take years…..

Will that be enough for a world record ?

[Stu]

Anyone like to make a wager how long the smee argument with the same points made by the same people can go on for...?

Should we call call Guinness WRB,.. could we be close to breaking a world record here?

Could take years…..

Will that be enough for a world record ?

Nah, need to run to over 700 pages for that….

….but the circular style of argument has to continue (with the same points being made over & over) throughout.

[morefirejules08]

Could take years…..

Will that be enough for a world record ?

Nah, need to run to over 700 pages for that….

….but the circular style of argument has to continue (with the same points being made over & over) throughout.

I’m pretty sure the thread will die a natural death once the new season starts and we have new controversies to exchange ideas about

[dans79]

Masi did a good job. Don’t blame him for lost title.
BLAME tyre strategy of Merc. They had chanse twice during the race to change tyres, VSC and SC and did’t. That why they lost.
RedBull was far better starategy wise. BLAME MERCEDES TEAM and their mistakes.

People doing good jobs don't end up removed from their position.

.
Is that so? When Wolff gave this funeral speech in mourning clothes, that moment it became clear that Masi would be fired.
He demanded that someone should be sacrificed .

Please, Masi has never done a good job, not since day one.

Hence the reason why none of the people who keep defending him, to defend max by proxy will even acknowledge my post that said ignore all of 2021, and you can see several purely safety related screw-ups on his part that would warrant being canned.

[Wouter]

People doing good jobs don't end up removed from their position.

.
Is that so? When Wolff gave this funeral speech in mourning clothes, that moment it became clear that Masi would be fired.
He demanded that someone should be sacrificed .

.
Please, Masi has never done a good job, not since day one.

Hence the reason why none of the people who keep defending him, to defend max by proxy will even acknowledge my post that said ignore all of 2021, and you can see several purely safety related screw-ups on his part that would warrant being canned.

.
Masi has indeed made mistakes before, so did Whiting .
You say he made mistakes from the start, but why has no one ever complained if he was so bad?
Why is it suddenly so bad that he was fired from his position? Why wasn't he fired sooner if he was so bad?
Why was he never warned to change? Why can suddenly two RD be appointed and why has this not been done before,
Masi and another RD? I think this penalty is too severe because it was given after one race, no, one last few laps, because he never had any real warnings from the FIA or I must have missed them.

[PlatinumZealot]

How could Mercedes anticipate Masi doing something which no race director has done in the history of motorsport?
Perhaps Mercedes anticipated masi would restart but without allowing the lapped cars through because that is legal and has happened in previous races. Perhaps Mercedes summonsed using past experience and logic that Lewis would still win as max would have to pass 5 cars?
The track, as has been pointed out wasn’t clear of Marshalls on lap 56.
So again you are being blind to at least one fact while using another to push your narrative.

.
Well, Lewis was not amused during the SC:

Lewis:" We should have boxed didn't we?'
Bono:" Copy Lewis, but we should have lost track position... We Stay out.."
Lewis:" You''re sure it's the right decision?"
Bono:" Copy Lewis, we think this wil be a safetycar ending"
Lewis:" Did Max get new tires?"
Bono:" Copy Lewis, Max pitted for new softs, we had lost track position if we pitted."
Lewis:" We should have pitted man...."
Bono:" Negative Lewis, we would have lost track position..."

That’s the thing, isn’t it!?
There is an alternate reality where LH pitted (he needed fresh tyres), which would have resulted in MV not pitting for tyres (and taking the track position). Masi then makes exactly the same call….
….and you have an 8-time WDC.

However, the last 3-months would have had exactly the same arguments (it was definitely not a civilised discussion), but those for/against would be flipped.

Highly doubt it would be the same call though. I'm 99% sure the most entertaining thing would be for Max to win the race" thanks to Mercdes' stupidity at giving up track position" with five laps remaining. And Masi would then follow the rules to the tee. Finish under SC and say" that's the rules! Safety first."

[nzjrs]

.
Well, Lewis was not amused during the SC:

Lewis:" We should have boxed didn't we?'
Bono:" Copy Lewis, but we should have lost track position... We Stay out.."
Lewis:" You''re sure it's the right decision?"
Bono:" Copy Lewis, we think this wil be a safetycar ending"
Lewis:" Did Max get new tires?"
Bono:" Copy Lewis, Max pitted for new softs, we had lost track position if we pitted."
Lewis:" We should have pitted man...."
Bono:" Negative Lewis, we would have lost track position..."

That’s the thing, isn’t it!?
There is an alternate reality where LH pitted (he needed fresh tyres), which would have resulted in MV not pitting for tyres (and taking the track position). Masi then makes exactly the same call….
….and you have an 8-time WDC.

However, the last 3-months would have had exactly the same arguments (it was definitely not a civilised discussion), but those for/against would be flipped.

Highly doubt it would be the same call though. I'm 99% sure the most entertaining thing would be for Max to win the race" thanks to Mercdes' stupidity at giving up track position" with five laps remaining. And Masi would then follow the rules to the tee. Finish under SC and say" that's the rules! Safety first."

Yes, but it's worth pointing out clearly that you believe there was a quasi conspiracy to engineer a championship win be RB.

It's to your credit that you admitted this honestly. It's weird, but at least you own it.

As I've consistently said, I believe Masi would have done the same thing if the positions were reversed, but is ringo suggesting that RB was actually better than toto in that moment and so if the positions were reversed it would have ended differently because Toto prefers a more 'email based' approach with Masi?

I've certainly not heard that being suggested as causal before.

Call me tinfoil or whatever, but I have a suspicion that there was an unwritten mandate to lubricate the RedBull's path to winning the championship. And Masi in his position was the expected steward (no pun intended) of this objective. I am not saying it is full on match fixing, but I got the sense that there were times when RedBull were given slaps on the wrist for their indiscretions, while Mercedes were severely punished for theirs. As the season went on it became clear that a theme of entertainment was overriding sporting fairness.

[morefirejules08]

.
Is that so? When Wolff gave this funeral speech in mourning clothes, that moment it became clear that Masi would be fired.
He demanded that someone should be sacrificed .

.
Please, Masi has never done a good job, not since day one.

Hence the reason why none of the people who keep defending him, to defend max by proxy will even acknowledge my post that said ignore all of 2021, and you can see several purely safety related screw-ups on his part that would warrant being canned.

.
Masi has indeed made mistakes before, so did Whiting .
You say he made mistakes from the start, but why has no one ever complained if he was so bad?
Why is it suddenly so bad that he was fired from his position? Why wasn't he fired sooner if he was so bad?
Why was he never warned to change? Why can suddenly two RD be appointed and why has this not been done before,
Masi and another RD? I think this penalty is too severe because it was given after one race, no, one last few laps, because he never had any real warnings from the FIA or I must have missed them.

I think you’ll find plenty of people were complaining about Masi before AD, particularly this season with inconsistent decisions and the spa debacle. I would suggest AD was the straw that broke the camels back.
Masi had to go because he’d lost the confidence of the FIA, teams and drivers and how do you know he was never warned to change? Are you privy to every conversation that went on behind closed doors?

[dans79]

You say he made mistakes from the start, but why has no one ever complained if he was so bad?

If you are talking about fans complaining then all you need to do is look through (off the top of my head) any of the following race threads, Monza 2019, Austria 2019, Silverstone 2019, when "let them race was" the new cool phrase.

If you are talking about teams or drivers complaining , then as Horner found out this year they have to be a lot more careful about what they say publicly. For example I don't know if i could find the exact quote, but after Silverstone, Charles basically said he drove the way he did because Austria showed him what he was allowed to get away with. And Max was a little perteverd about Silverstone.

https://f1i.com/news/348049-leclerc-ver ... attle.html

Leclerc had a protracted fight for position in the opening laps with Verstappen which saw both drivers push to the absolute limit - and beyond - in a bid to gain the upper hand, a continuation of their duel in Austria.

"Extremely happy with the battle we had on the track," he said. “The last race [in Austria] was a bit of an eye opener for me, really showing how far we can go.

"I think it's great for Formula 1 to fight on the limit in that way, and I'm happy this race has gone like this.”

However, Verstappen felt that Leclerc might have been a little too aggressive in his moves at times, and suggested that he was carrying a grudge from that previous clash in Spielberg two weeks ago.

"I think he was a little bit sore still from Austria so he was defending really hard," Verstappen suggested. "But that’s fine, I’m all for that.

Why is it suddenly so bad that he was fired from his position? Why wasn't he fired sooner if he was so bad?
Why was he never warned to change? Why can suddenly two RD be appointed and why has this not been done before,
Masi and another RD? I think this penalty is too severe because it was given after one race, no, one last few laps, because he never had any real warnings from the FIA or I must have missed them.

A few points here. The FIA isn't really known for admitting they screwed up ever. A perfect example of that being Balestre's famous quote. We have no way of knowing if Masi had been warned previously. With that being said I can tell you from my own personal management experience, that in general people aren't fired for one indiscretion, it's usually because of a string of indiscretions, and the last one was the one that broke the camel's back. Also, people are usually given some bit of grace to get comfortable in a position.

[Wouter]

A few points here. The FIA isn't really known for admitting they screwed up ever. A perfect example of that being Balestre's famous quote. We have no way of knowing if Masi had been warned previously. With that being said I can tell you from my own personal management experience, that in general people aren't fired for one indiscretion, it's usually because of a string of indiscretions, and the last one was the one that broke the camel's back. Also, people are usually given some bit of grace to get comfortable in a position.

.
That is why I also said why can they suddenly appoint two RD and have they not done so in response to complaints against Masi?
Sulayem has admitted that Masi had far too many tasks to do on his own. Why didn't they intervene?
Why didn't they come up with a solution sooner? If this hadn't happened in such a decisive race, nothing would have changed
and the FIA would not have intervened. By now sacking Masi, the FIA no longer has to pay attention to their own mistakes,
talk about them, because they too have made mistakes last season and before.
All attention now goes to Masi, and the FIA and their stewards are not mentioned at all. Clever/cunning.

[Just_a_fan]

A few points here. The FIA isn't really known for admitting they screwed up ever. A perfect example of that being Balestre's famous quote. We have no way of knowing if Masi had been warned previously. With that being said I can tell you from my own personal management experience, that in general people aren't fired for one indiscretion, it's usually because of a string of indiscretions, and the last one was the one that broke the camel's back. Also, people are usually given some bit of grace to get comfortable in a position.

.
That is why I also said why can they suddenly appoint two RD and have they not done so in response to complaints against Masi?
Sulayem has admitted that Masi had far too many tasks to do on his own. Why didn't they intervene?
Why didn't they come up with a solution sooner? If this hadn't happened in such a decisive race, nothing would have changed
and the FIA would not have intervened. By now sacking Masi, the FIA no longer has to pay attention to their own mistakes,
talk about them, because they too have made mistakes last season and before.
All attention now goes to Masi, and the FIA and their stewards are not mentioned at all. Clever/cunning.

One word: politics. Other phrases include: saving face.

The FIA couldn't do anything about Masi before the "official investigation " because doing so would cast doubt on the 2021 season. So they waited.

This is all standard stuff and those of us with years under our belts are not surprised - seen it all before.

[dans79]

That is why I also said why can they suddenly appoint two RD and have they not done so in response to complaints against Masi?

Its been hinted that's neither of his 2 replacements wanted to do the job full time. If that's true or not, I don't know.

Sulayem has admitted that Masi had far too many tasks to do on his own. Why didn't they intervene?
Why didn't they come up with a solution sooner? If this hadn't happened in such a decisive race, nothing would have changed

Masi was under Toldt, and if the end of 2019 says anything about him, it's thats he is going to ignore smoke till he see's a raging fire, and even then a lot of stuff will be hand hand waved away.

I'd bet a New FIA president stepping into a total fiasco on his first day is why the reaction was as strong as it was.If it had been me, he would have been let go after 2020!