Mercedes W13

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ojir19
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Joined: 21 Feb 2022, 07:40

Re: Mercedes W13

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dans79 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 08:43
ojir19 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 07:30
f1motta wrote:
21 Feb 2022, 08:57
Shape the inner side of Mercedes W13 diffuser:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FL_XAxtXwAo ... name=large
imo, that is too concave

https://i.postimg.cc/T1wrGywD/W13-FL-XAxtccc.jpg

Care to explain? That shot is so blurry I'm having a hard time telling what I'm looking at.
to my understanding, racingcar bottom floor mostly are shaped like #1 or #2, either it is flat or convex, to maximize the ventury effect and create smooth flow transition ...... what I saw on W13, there is a concave curve before the end of the floor .... could it be they try to create a partially stalled flow ? (for some reason).... just like GMA T50

* forgive my english, this isnt my mother language

Image
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theVortexCreatorY250
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Joined: 07 Oct 2021, 14:53

Re: Mercedes W13

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ojir19 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 09:30
dans79 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 08:43
ojir19 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 07:30


imo, that is too concave

https://i.postimg.cc/T1wrGywD/W13-FL-XAxtccc.jpg

Care to explain? That shot is so blurry I'm having a hard time telling what I'm looking at.
to my understanding, racingcar bottom floor mostly are shaped like #1 or #2, either it is flat or convex, to maximize the ventury effect and create smooth flow transition ...... what I saw on W13, there is a concave curve before the end of the floor .... could it be they try to create a partially stalled flow ? (for some reason).... just like GMA T50

* forgive my english, this isnt my mother language

https://i.postimg.cc/Vvq8Zsy0/W13-GMA-T ... 135654.jpg
2 Reasons.

1) they get a strip of vortex generators before so you'd be amazed at how much energy in the boundary layer they have at this point (it won't be separating although close)

2) The concave geometry is ideal for moving centre of pressure forwards + it more closely matches the curvature of the tunnels which is ideal (imagine one tunnel not 3 sections). The reason the two tunnels have an early concave kick is likely due both centre of pressure and it helps to not suck in the rear tyre squirt (since more low pressure is forward of the tyre contact patch)
I create vortices

toraabe
toraabe
12
Joined: 09 Oct 2014, 10:42

Re: Mercedes W13

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Could be. Anyway The road to success in 2022 is how good the venturi tunnels work.. The better less wing is needed.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
593
Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

ojir19 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 09:30
dans79 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 08:43
ojir19 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 07:30


imo, that is too concave

https://i.postimg.cc/T1wrGywD/W13-FL-XAxtccc.jpg

Care to explain? That shot is so blurry I'm having a hard time telling what I'm looking at.
to my understanding, racingcar bottom floor mostly are shaped like #1 or #2, either it is flat or convex, to maximize the ventury effect and create smooth flow transition ...... what I saw on W13, there is a concave curve before the end of the floor .... could it be they try to create a partially stalled flow ? (for some reason).... just like GMA T50

* forgive my english, this isnt my mother language

https://i.postimg.cc/Vvq8Zsy0/W13-GMA-T ... 135654.jpg
F1 diffusers have been concave for many years.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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jjn9128
778
Joined: 02 May 2017, 23:53

Re: Mercedes W13

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zibby43 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 07:05
jjn9128 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 00:38
That's my post they stole
Yep. I found your original and shared it a few posts down from that one.
Aaah I didn't see. Thanks
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Ashwinv16
60
Joined: 15 Jul 2017, 12:04

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

ojir19 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 09:30
dans79 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 08:43
ojir19 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 07:30

imo, that is too concave

https://i.postimg.cc/T1wrGywD/W13-FL-XAxtccc.jpg

Care to explain? That shot is so blurry I'm having a hard time telling what I'm looking at.
to my understanding, racingcar bottom floor mostly are shaped like #1 or #2, either it is flat or convex, to maximize the ventury effect and create smooth flow transition ...... what I saw on W13, there is a concave curve before the end of the floor .... could it be they try to create a partially stalled flow ? (for some reason).... just like GMA T50

* forgive my english, this isnt my mother language

https://i.postimg.cc/Vvq8Zsy0/W13-GMA-T ... 135654.jpg
T.50 Design a bit different as it relies on bernoulli principal in refrence to kinetic energy mainly so increase veolcity at th rear end, thus flow attachemtn happens diffrently and you get the diffuser exit that flows straight out. You have a who lot more int he w13 and other f1 cars here including the beam wings that direct air upwards so the stalling induced low pressure, still ends up curving the diffuser flow upwards as it tries to attach to the flow from the beam wings above the floor. The only thing is The faster the car moves, the stronger the stalling effect from that concave curve, thus the faster the car goes, the less drag(and downforce) and more top speed. Only problem. This diffuser wont work properely and requries a near perfect set-up in tracks like Monaco, Singapore, Baku, etc... as it's very senstive to bumpy surfaces.

Image
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c9wzgE ... sp=sharing
Halo not as bad as we thought

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ojir19
38
Joined: 21 Feb 2022, 07:40

Re: Mercedes W13

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Ashwinv16 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 11:30
ojir19 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 09:30
dans79 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 08:43



Care to explain? That shot is so blurry I'm having a hard time telling what I'm looking at.
to my understanding, racingcar bottom floor mostly are shaped like #1 or #2, either it is flat or convex, to maximize the ventury effect and create smooth flow transition ...... what I saw on W13, there is a concave curve before the end of the floor .... could it be they try to create a partially stalled flow ? (for some reason).... just like GMA T50

* forgive my english, this isnt my mother language

https://i.postimg.cc/Vvq8Zsy0/W13-GMA-T ... 135654.jpg
T.50 Design a bit different as it relies on bernoulli principal in refrence to kinetic energy mainly so increase veolcity at th rear end, thus flow attachemtn happens diffrently and you get the diffuser exit that flows straight out. You have a who lot more int he w13 and other f1 cars here including the beam wings that direct air upwards so the stalling induced low pressure, still ends up curving the diffuser flow upwards as it tries to attach to the flow from the beam wings above the floor. The only thing is The faster the car moves, the stronger the stalling effect from that concave curve, thus the faster the car goes, the less drag(and downforce) and more top speed. Only problem. This diffuser wont work properely and requries a near perfect set-up in tracks like Monaco, Singapore, Baku, etc... as it's very senstive to bumpy surfaces.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c9wzgE ... sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c9wzgE ... sp=sharing
Ah, yes, I should have drawn that yellow line , thanks for the addition
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PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Mercedes W13

Post

ojir19 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 09:30
dans79 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 08:43
ojir19 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 07:30


imo, that is too concave

https://i.postimg.cc/T1wrGywD/W13-FL-XAxtccc.jpg

Care to explain? That shot is so blurry I'm having a hard time telling what I'm looking at.
to my understanding, racingcar bottom floor mostly are shaped like #1 or #2, either it is flat or convex, to maximize the ventury effect and create smooth flow transition ...... what I saw on W13, there is a concave curve before the end of the floor .... could it be they try to create a partially stalled flow ? (for some reason).... just like GMA T50

* forgive my english, this isnt my mother language

https://i.postimg.cc/Vvq8Zsy0/W13-GMA-T ... 135654.jpg
Formula 1 Diffusers have been concave for years...

Counter intuitive I know. 8) but there is an explanation.
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SiLo
138
Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: Mercedes W13

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theVortexCreatorY250 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 09:36
2) The concave geometry is ideal for moving centre of pressure forwards + it more closely matches the curvature of the tunnels which is ideal (imagine one tunnel not 3 sections). The reason the two tunnels have an early concave kick is likely due both centre of pressure and it helps to not suck in the rear tyre squirt (since more low pressure is forward of the tyre contact patch)
It's explained nicely here by Vortex.
Felipe Baby!

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organic
1055
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Mercedes W13

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Looks mean

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Stu
Moderator
Joined: 02 Nov 2019, 10:05
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Mercedes W13

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theVortexCreatorY250 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 09:36
ojir19 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 09:30
dans79 wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 08:43



Care to explain? That shot is so blurry I'm having a hard time telling what I'm looking at.
to my understanding, racingcar bottom floor mostly are shaped like #1 or #2, either it is flat or convex, to maximize the ventury effect and create smooth flow transition ...... what I saw on W13, there is a concave curve before the end of the floor .... could it be they try to create a partially stalled flow ? (for some reason).... just like GMA T50

* forgive my english, this isnt my mother language

https://i.postimg.cc/Vvq8Zsy0/W13-GMA-T ... 135654.jpg
2 Reasons.

1) they get a strip of vortex generators before so you'd be amazed at how much energy in the boundary layer they have at this point (it won't be separating although close)

2) The concave geometry is ideal for moving centre of pressure forwards + it more closely matches the curvature of the tunnels which is ideal (imagine one tunnel not 3 sections). The reason the two tunnels have an early concave kick is likely due both centre of pressure and it helps to not suck in the rear tyre squirt (since more low pressure is forward of the tyre contact patch)
If you can keep the flow attached, it is best to get to the maximum ceiling height as quickly as possible, this maximises the volume of the diffuser and moves the CoP forwards. The diffuser is slowing the airflow such that when it exits the diffuser the pressure is back to ambient (ish - due to the car wake the pressure will always be slightly lower than ambient). You want to maximise the the amount of low pressure under the car, so a bigger volume is more beneficial.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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AeroDynamic
349
Joined: 28 Sep 2021, 12:25
Location: La règle du jeu

Re: Mercedes W13

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organic wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 19:38


Looks mean
and lean!
Image

User avatar
Stu
Moderator
Joined: 02 Nov 2019, 10:05
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Mercedes W13

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AeroDynamic wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 19:48
organic wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 19:38


Looks mean
and lean!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMN9XSnXEA8 ... =4096x4096
Can we call them ‘Dynasty’ side-pods?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... g&usqp=CAU
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

OO7
OO7
171
Joined: 06 Apr 2010, 17:49

Re: Mercedes W13

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Stu wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 19:51
AeroDynamic wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 19:48
organic wrote:
22 Feb 2022, 19:38


Looks mean
and lean!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMN9XSnXEA8 ... =4096x4096
Can we call them ‘Dynasty’ side-pods?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... g&usqp=CAU
As long as we can call the tunnel/venturi (or whatever they're called) inlet vanes, 'Tiger Claws' or 'Cats Claws'.

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Vanja #66
1562
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: Mercedes W13

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Hello everyone, after doing the F1-75 sidepods simulation, I also did the W13 as well. To keep everything in the same place, I decided to post it in the same thread here --> viewtopic.php?p=1035377#p1035377

Just a shor summary for those who might not want to read trough all of it, these sidepods are super tiny and super low drag but the rear tyre suffered a lot in this simulation and overall the car generated more downforce compared to the other sidepod design, but was also less aerodinamically efficient.

Image
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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