2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[cliffgamerz]

"Daniel Ricciardo is driving a racing simulation it seems. His times are in the 1:24 to 1:25 and he has been doing that for quite a long time. The McLaren looks very fast just like the Ferrari, concluded Red Bull team principal Horner."

Source: https://www.gptoday.net/nl/live/f1/2671 ... lona-dag-2

Sounds very promising

[JordanMugen]

Engineers design cars, engineers rely on data

Obviously there was no data 40 years ago, so that's why Dernie notes it was so important and valuable that drivers like Jones gave concise feedback of car behaviour and where the time loss was, and not a long irrelevant essay as some drivers are prone to doing!

This is, of course, assuming driver feedback back then related more to chassis behaviour and maybe aerodynamic stall (as it would still do today?), but that pure aerodynamic characteristics were measured by Dernie in the wind tunnel.

[SmallSoldier]

The driver is the "source of truth" for the engineers. You can rely on the data all you want, but if the driver cannot translate that in the track, then everything is meaningless.

In that regard, a driver's input is very important, because good feedback pushes the development towards concepts that lead to better on-track performance, and the opposite can lead to disaster.

So yeah, you cannot attribute the car's performance entirely on the driver's feedback, but you cannot discredit it as well.

It’s “feedback”… It’s subjective… It’s based on “feeling”…

Last season one driver extracted speed out of the package, the other one didn’t and it was because of “feeling”… It was very telling when Tom Stallard was telling Daniel: “It is fast when it feels slow”.

Engineers design cars, engineers rely on data

I’m not discrediting it, but I won’t overestimate it either… The MCL33 is one of the worst cars McLaren has brought to a track, with feedback from the likes of Alonso and Button, not “7 time race winners”, but World Champions… Was the MCL33 a dog because of their feedback?

You picked the worst car for this argument, because the MCL33 was always going to suffer from some sort of flaw given how late the decision to switch to Renault was made. Nevertheless, the problem with that car turned out to be a fundamental error in the design, and not bad driver feedback as you suggested.

But because you mentioned one of the past cars. I believe one of the reasons why these last few McLarens, although very decent cars, have suffered from a weak front-end, has to do with Fernando's feedback back in 2015-2017.
Fernando is one of the most adaptable drivers of the recent history, but he had his preferences. And his preferences, unfortunately for McLaren, required bizarre handling characteristics.

You can see this mostly from his onboards with the Renault of 2004-2006, but basically, he liked to forcefully push the car towards understeer on corner entry, wait for it to balance and grip, then shoot away on the exit.

This driving style, which as far as I am aware is unique to him, led to post 2017 cars having a weird front-end trait on them, for which both Carlos and Daniel can vouch. How do I know that this is the case? Because Fernando himself said back in 2017, that he could finally reuse his old style again.

Actual quote taken from this article: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ferna ... 7/4997657/

"With the 2017 cars, I'm able to drive back again to my driving style, I feel much more competitive than the previous years, I'm feeling competitive out there on the track."

So, yeah, driver's input is important. It pushed engineers back then to pursue certain handling characteristics that Fernando was asking for, and they were translating on track because he (Fernando) could make them work.

But here comes Carlos and Daniel (and actually Lando has been critical as well), and it turns out that it's not such a good trait to have on your car, unless your driver is Fernando Alonso.

I guess I didn’t express myself correctly or you misread me, I didn’t say that the MCL33 was a bad car because of Fernando’s and Jenson’s feedback, it was meant that it was bad even when it had their feedback and I chose it as the closest reference of a car that wasn’t good regardless of the engine (because it’s very hard to measure the chassis performance during the Honda years)… But I can go through history and find cars that even when they had feedback from great drivers, the cars didn’t bode well on track and that’s the whole argument… The drivers provide feedback, the team takes into consideration, but ultimately they build what they think will be the fastest car based on their simulations regardless of it has A or B trait.

And the reason for it is because they can’t take into consideration if a driver rides the brakes a little longer than others for example or if they will turn in sharper than others… That’s why Lando could extract more out of the car than Daniel, it was just “style” and they can’t account for “style” during the design phase… The drivers are expected to adjust to the car (like in 1997 when they came out with the third pedal, which Hakkinen got to grips faster than Coulthard… actually at the beginning Coulthard was slower using it than when he wasn’t).

Anyway, I do believe that some fanatism makes people think that the driver’s input and feedback has more weight into the design of the car than what happens in reality… I hope the car suits Daniel a bit more since he showed last season that he will have a hard time if it doesn’t and that we have 2 drivers fighting with similar performance so that the team can maximize points this season.

[SmallSoldier]

Just read the comments from Sainz and apparently it is easier to follow, that’s great news!

[SmallSoldier]

After making some front wing adjustments, it looks like Ricciardo will be heading out imminently - and indeed there he goes to add to 102 laps. Having seemingly taken to this year's car much quicker than last year's, his intra-team battle with Norris could be one for the ages in 2022.

[Marc.W]

"Daniel Ricciardo is driving a racing simulation it seems. His times are in the 1:24 to 1:25 and he has been doing that for quite a long time. The McLaren looks very fast just like the Ferrari, concluded Red Bull team principal Horner."

Source: https://www.gptoday.net/nl/live/f1/2671 ... lona-dag-2

Sounds very promising

I will not get excited, I will not get excited, I will not get excited.

[SmallSoldier]

"Daniel Ricciardo is driving a racing simulation it seems. His times are in the 1:24 to 1:25 and he has been doing that for quite a long time. The McLaren looks very fast just like the Ferrari, concluded Red Bull team principal Horner."

Source: https://www.gptoday.net/nl/live/f1/2671 ... lona-dag-2

Sounds very promising

I will not get excited, I will not get excited, I will not get excited.

I’m following the same mantra… It’s hard though!

[mwillems]

How they know the comparable on the edge speed of the two drivers is beyond me, mainly because they don't have a clue

[Darth-Piekus]

Not looking at the times it seems that McLaren built a powerful base car and I can't wait to see what will they bring on the main Bahrain test.

[Macklaren]

Not looking at the times it seems that McLaren built a powerful base car and I can't wait to see what will they bring on the main Bahrain test.

Would be epic if the "real" car comes out at the Bahrain test, turns out to be a dog, forces them to go back to this base spec car which then gets stuck on pole at the race

[PhillipM]

Mclaren are just validating the suspension and aero mapping at this first one, don't expect much in the way of parts, even for the second test it'll mainly be smaller bits as it's likely stuff like the race floor etc won't be there until race weekend

[SmallSoldier]

Mclaren are just validating the suspension and aero mapping at this first one, don't expect much in the way of parts, even for the second test it'll mainly be smaller bits as it's likely stuff like the race floor etc won't be there until race weekend

Wouldn’t it be a bit risky to run the race floor (and other race parts) for the first time in FP1 of the first race?

I guess that if correlation is good after this first test, the level of confidence that the new parts will provide the expected performance will rise.

[SmallSoldier]

Repeat after me… It’s only testing… It’s only testing… It’s only testing:

[Marc.W]

Repeat after me… It’s only testing… It’s only testing… It’s only testing:

[Ground Effect]

Repeat after me… It’s only testing… It’s only testing… It’s only testing:

I just screamed into a pillow!