Red Bull RB18

[morefirejules08]

All teams bar one have problems with the minimum weight. Rumour has it the RB18 is the most affected.
Marko told that yesterday has been a meeting to discuss another increase of minimum weight, although he doesn't expect a consensus to be found. He also said that Red Bull is going to bring a weight-upgrade (i.e. downgrade ) in Bahrain.
https://www.motorsport-magazin.com/form ... -anhebung/

Question is, which team isn’t overweight?

[gandharva]

Question is, which team isn’t overweight?

Alfa Romeo

[organic]

Question is, which team isn’t overweight?

Alfa Romeo

They're also the team that's reportedly under the wheelbase limit by 9cm which is almost certainly why they're able to make it down to the limit:

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... sign-2022/

"What you don't see at first glance is the length of the car. According to information from auto motor und sport, the Alfa Romeo C42 is by far the shortest car in the field. The wheelbase, which was limited by the regulations to 3.6 metres for the first time this year, is said to have been cut by the Sauber engineers by another 9 centimetres.
The trick helps the aerodynamics and saves weight. The Alfa is said to be one of the few cars in the field that made it exactly to the limit of the maximum weight of 795 kilograms. During testing, some of the competitors were still lugging around excess weight in the double-digit kilogram range."

[DiogoBrand]

Tim, do you think Newey did this radical geometry more for aero purposes or mechanical purposes?

In Kyle's video about the RB18 he says it's most likely mechanical as he cannot see any aero benefit from it.

[OO7]

Question is, which team isn’t overweight?

Alfa Romeo

They're also the team that's reportedly under the wheelbase limit by 9cm which is almost certainly why they're able to make it down to the limit:

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... sign-2022/

"What you don't see at first glance is the length of the car. According to information from auto motor und sport, the Alfa Romeo C42 is by far the shortest car in the field. The wheelbase, which was limited by the regulations to 3.6 metres for the first time this year, is said to have been cut by the Sauber engineers by another 9 centimetres.
The trick helps the aerodynamics and saves weight. The Alfa is said to be one of the few cars in the field that made it exactly to the limit of the maximum weight of 795 kilograms. During testing, some of the competitors were still lugging around excess weight in the double-digit kilogram range."

I have my doubts over that article. A difference of 9cm isn't going to make a difference in the double digit kg range. Even 5kg would be excessive considering we're discussing carbon fibre structures.

[AR3-GP]

Alfa Romeo

They're also the team that's reportedly under the wheelbase limit by 9cm which is almost certainly why they're able to make it down to the limit:

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... sign-2022/

"What you don't see at first glance is the length of the car. According to information from auto motor und sport, the Alfa Romeo C42 is by far the shortest car in the field. The wheelbase, which was limited by the regulations to 3.6 metres for the first time this year, is said to have been cut by the Sauber engineers by another 9 centimetres.
The trick helps the aerodynamics and saves weight. The Alfa is said to be one of the few cars in the field that made it exactly to the limit of the maximum weight of 795 kilograms. During testing, some of the competitors were still lugging around excess weight in the double-digit kilogram range."

I have my doubts over that article. A difference of 9cm isn't going to make a difference in the double digit kg range. Even 5kg would be excessive considering we're discussing carbon fibre structures.

I concur. 9cm isn't anything at all. I think the authors are a bit asleep. From the pre-season photos, the Alpine appears to be a shorter car than the others.

[cooken]

Alfa Romeo

They're also the team that's reportedly under the wheelbase limit by 9cm which is almost certainly why they're able to make it down to the limit:

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... sign-2022/

"What you don't see at first glance is the length of the car. According to information from auto motor und sport, the Alfa Romeo C42 is by far the shortest car in the field. The wheelbase, which was limited by the regulations to 3.6 metres for the first time this year, is said to have been cut by the Sauber engineers by another 9 centimetres.
The trick helps the aerodynamics and saves weight. The Alfa is said to be one of the few cars in the field that made it exactly to the limit of the maximum weight of 795 kilograms. During testing, some of the competitors were still lugging around excess weight in the double-digit kilogram range."

I have my doubts over that article. A difference of 9cm isn't going to make a difference in the double digit kg range. Even 5kg would be excessive considering we're discussing carbon fibre structures.

Assume:
- Simple increase in floor volume, with floor approximated as a rectangular plate.
- width = 1.6m (approx from regs)
- length = 0.09m
- density = 1550kg/m3 (quick Google search)
- mass = 5kg

Thickness of plate needed to achieve a 5kg mass increase from 9cm length increase:
t = m/(w*l*p) = 0.0224m or 2.24cm

No idea how thick an F1 floor is, but given the extra body work etc that might be associated...might not be that far fetched?

[OO7]

They're also the team that's reportedly under the wheelbase limit by 9cm which is almost certainly why they're able to make it down to the limit:

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... sign-2022/

"What you don't see at first glance is the length of the car. According to information from auto motor und sport, the Alfa Romeo C42 is by far the shortest car in the field. The wheelbase, which was limited by the regulations to 3.6 metres for the first time this year, is said to have been cut by the Sauber engineers by another 9 centimetres.
The trick helps the aerodynamics and saves weight. The Alfa is said to be one of the few cars in the field that made it exactly to the limit of the maximum weight of 795 kilograms. During testing, some of the competitors were still lugging around excess weight in the double-digit kilogram range."

I have my doubts over that article. A difference of 9cm isn't going to make a difference in the double digit kg range. Even 5kg would be excessive considering we're discussing carbon fibre structures.

Assume:
- Simple increase in floor volume, with floor approximated as a rectangular plate.
- width = 1.6m (approx from regs)
- length = 0.09m
- density = 1550kg/m3 (quick Google search)
- mass = 5kg

Thickness of plate needed to achieve a 5kg mass increase from 9cm length increase:
t = m/(w*l*p) = 0.0224m or 2.24cm

No idea how thick an F1 floor is, but given the extra body work etc that might be associated...might not be that far fetched?

These cars have wheelbases of around 3.5 metres, but if we apply that calculation over a 3 metre length of floor (which should be reasonable when including the diffuser), we get a floor weight of 166.66kg! That can't be right.

[cooken]

I have my doubts over that article. A difference of 9cm isn't going to make a difference in the double digit kg range. Even 5kg would be excessive considering we're discussing carbon fibre structures.

Assume:
- Simple increase in floor volume, with floor approximated as a rectangular plate.
- width = 1.6m (approx from regs)
- length = 0.09m
- density = 1550kg/m3 (quick Google search)
- mass = 5kg

Thickness of plate needed to achieve a 5kg mass increase from 9cm length increase:
t = m/(w*l*p) = 0.0224m or 2.24cm

No idea how thick an F1 floor is, but given the extra body work etc that might be associated...might not be that far fetched?

These cars have wheelbases of around 3.5 metres, but if we apply that calculation over a 3 metre length of floor (which should be reasonable when including the diffuser), we get a floor weight of 166.66kg! That can't be right.

Sorry I didn't mean to suggest 2.24cm would be an actual floor thickness, again I have no idea what it would actually be (on average or locally). Just some back of napkin order of magnitude stuff.

Consider that increasing wheelbase will mean increasing the length of a bunch of stuff connecting front to rear, depending on where the extra length happens. 9cm on the skid block would be ~0.4kg.

[OO7]

By skid block you mean the titanium/magnesium skids and not the plank right?

[cooken]

By skid block you mean the titanium/magnesium skids and not the plank right?

Sorry yes I meant the plank. I didn't dig deep in the regs, used a 300mm width and 10mm thickness with 1.3 SG.

[PlatinumZealot]

You can have the same size chassis and sweep the front suspension rearward and the rear suspenion forward and easily get that shortened 9cm of wheelbase.

[Lefty8]

They're also the team that's reportedly under the wheelbase limit by 9cm which is almost certainly why they're able to make it down to the limit:

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... sign-2022/

"What you don't see at first glance is the length of the car. According to information from auto motor und sport, the Alfa Romeo C42 is by far the shortest car in the field. The wheelbase, which was limited by the regulations to 3.6 metres for the first time this year, is said to have been cut by the Sauber engineers by another 9 centimetres.
The trick helps the aerodynamics and saves weight. The Alfa is said to be one of the few cars in the field that made it exactly to the limit of the maximum weight of 795 kilograms. During testing, some of the competitors were still lugging around excess weight in the double-digit kilogram range."

I have my doubts over that article. A difference of 9cm isn't going to make a difference in the double digit kg range. Even 5kg would be excessive considering we're discussing carbon fibre structures.

Assume:
- Simple increase in floor volume, with floor approximated as a rectangular plate.
- width = 1.6m (approx from regs)
- length = 0.09m
- density = 1550kg/m3 (quick Google search)
- mass = 5kg

Thickness of plate needed to achieve a 5kg mass increase from 9cm length increase:
t = m/(w*l*p) = 0.0224m or 2.24cm

No idea how thick an F1 floor is, but given the extra body work etc that might be associated...might not be that far fetched?

The tub will be the thickest structure comprising Unidirectional carbon fibre, kevlar, aluminium honeycomb and polyurethane foam. If the tub is shorter to achieve the shorter wheelbase then it plausible that 9cm saved translates into a weight saving

[Vanja #66]

You can have the same size chassis and sweep the front suspension rearward and the rear suspenion forward and easily get that shortened 9cm of wheelbase.

I'm not sure that's the case. Chassis length depends on total length, and total length is a function of wheelbase + front and rear wing box lengths, since wing boxes are referenced. From the technical rules article:

Article 3 will no longer describe the dimensions of the regulation volumes, instead teams will input their wheelbase, front bulkhead and differential locations into the FIA CAD portal, with the volumes autogenerating for download.

[Godius]

Notice the outwash wake behind the front tires:



(brake disc heat dissipation?)