2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[Dee]

He also received 1 penalty point during the entire season, 21 races, at Mexico for leaving the track, the exact same thing Hamilton did, which he was not penalised for https://www.racefans.net/2016-f1-season ... ies-index/

Penalty points is but part of the story!

this is but one example why we got the Verstappen rule.


https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fia-d ... 8/5019118/

"Some of the incidents that we saw last year may be handled slightly differently, simply because the so-called 'Verstappen rule' has gone," said F1 race director Charlie Whiting ahead of the Australian Grand Prix this weekend.

The only driver that got penalised by the Verstappen rule was Vettel in Mexico

Max was dancing in an area where there were no rules and exploiting them like any of the greats have done

21 races, switched cars mid season, 18 years old, a record 78 overtakes and 1 penalty point for something which Hamilton did in the exact same race

Where in all of that was Max juvenile in his race craft?

Nowhere

In 2017, the rule was in fact dropped https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/1898 ... le-dropped

[dans79]

Where in all of that was Max juvenile in his race craft?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/37741994

Drivers' concerns about the defensive tactics of Red Bull's Max Verstappen have led to Formula 1 outlawing moving under braking.

The Dutchman has employed this tactic as a trademark in battles with rivals but many other drivers have complained that it is extremely dangerous.

Whiting has issued a ruling saying such moves will be considered illegal.

This is likely to become known as the "Verstappen rule" after a series of controversies involving the 19-year-old this year.

These have included his battles with Ferrari driver Kimi Raikkonen at the Hungarian and Belgian Grands Prix, and with Mercedes' Lewis Hamilton at the last race in Japan.

Whiting has been confronted about the issue a number of times this season. His initial response was that Verstappen was driving on the edge but just within the bounds of acceptability.

Verstappen has twice in recent races been taken aside by Whiting and warned to be careful about how he drives in such situations.

But after repeated complaints from the drivers, Whiting has been persuaded that he needs to take action.

[Dee]

Where in all of that was Max juvenile in his race craft?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/37741994

Drivers' concerns about the defensive tactics of Red Bull's Max Verstappen have led to Formula 1 outlawing moving under braking.

The Dutchman has employed this tactic as a trademark in battles with rivals but many other drivers have complained that it is extremely dangerous.

Whiting has issued a ruling saying such moves will be considered illegal.

This is likely to become known as the "Verstappen rule" after a series of controversies involving the 19-year-old this year.

These have included his battles with Ferrari driver Kimi Raikkonen at the Hungarian and Belgian Grands Prix, and with Mercedes' Lewis Hamilton at the last race in Japan.

Whiting has been confronted about the issue a number of times this season. His initial response was that Verstappen was driving on the edge but just within the bounds of acceptability.

Verstappen has twice in recent races been taken aside by Whiting and warned to be careful about how he drives in such situations.

But after repeated complaints from the drivers, Whiting has been persuaded that he needs to take action.

Did Max cause a crash due to this driving? No

Was it illegal to drive this way? No



Vettel " Max is redefining the limits, not in a negative way, in terms of pushing, playing with the car. He is a skilled kid, I like him, I think some of the some of the moves he needs to calm down as he is ultimately only hurting himself...."

[dans79]

Did Max cause a crash due to this driving? No

Damaging kimi's front wing is about as close as you can get. imo its more luck that he didn't cause an accident that's skill.

if you check the article I linked to, you will see at someone in the paddock agreed.

Race director Charlie Whiting was told at the US Grand Prix that there would be a big accident if he did not act.

And Vettel in the same article.

Four-time world champion Sebastian Vettel, a director of the Grand Prix Drivers' Association, said: "It is very simple. The day I joined F1 it was clear and it was a sort of unwritten law, and in recent times we have had situations and got away with it.

"So for sure then the message is that everyone is starting to do it. It is the wrong thing because, as we spoke about yesterday, we are just waiting for something to happen. Therefore I think it is a good action."

So to circle back to my original post, imo he is no different, he is still just as likely to cause an accident/incident as he was in 2016.

Edit: and it was illegal.
from the 2015 sporting regulations.
20.5

Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.

[Dee]

Did Max cause a crash due to this driving? No

Damaging kimi's front wing is about as close as you can get. imo its more luck that he didn't cause an accident that's skill.

if you check the article I linked to, you will see at someone in the paddock agreed.

Race director Charlie Whiting was told at the US Grand Prix that there would be a big accident if he did not act.

And Vettel in the same article.

Four-time world champion Sebastian Vettel, a director of the Grand Prix Drivers' Association, said: "It is very simple. The day I joined F1 it was clear and it was a sort of unwritten law, and in recent times we have had situations and got away with it.

"So for sure then the message is that everyone is starting to do it. It is the wrong thing because, as we spoke about yesterday, we are just waiting for something to happen. Therefore I think it is a good action."

So to circle back to my original post, imo he is no different, he is still just as likely to cause an accident/incident as he was in 2016.

"So to circle back to my original post, imo he is no different, he is still just as likely to cause an accident/incident as he was in 2016"

As is every single driver in F1

You may have forgotten about every single incident and crash that has happened or been caused by every other driver except Verstappen in the last 6 years, but others haven't

Leclerc has been over the edge and a crash magnet for the last three years
Hamilton can not stop crashing into Red Bull, a crash every year since 2019
X,Y,Z drivers have got penalties

But somehow, Max is juveline....

Max, who had zero penalty points in a 12 month season span within the last 3 years

[Stu]

Did Max cause a crash due to this driving? No

Damaging kimi's front wing is about as close as you can get. imo its more luck that he didn't cause an accident that's skill.

if you check the article I linked to, you will see at someone in the paddock agreed.

Race director Charlie Whiting was told at the US Grand Prix that there would be a big accident if he did not act.

And Vettel in the same article.

Four-time world champion Sebastian Vettel, a director of the Grand Prix Drivers' Association, said: "It is very simple. The day I joined F1 it was clear and it was a sort of unwritten law, and in recent times we have had situations and got away with it.

"So for sure then the message is that everyone is starting to do it. It is the wrong thing because, as we spoke about yesterday, we are just waiting for something to happen. Therefore I think it is a good action."

So to circle back to my original post, imo he is no different, he is still just as likely to cause an accident/incident as he was in 2016.

The bold bit above, if it came from the paddock, was most likely someone with an axe to grind. F1 is a bit like that…

[chrisc90]

Max was by far the best driver this season. Stats prove that. You cant argue with facts.

Granted there might have been a few overtakes that were a bit suspect, such as Brazil, it doesnt go without saying it happened on both sides too of those fighting for the title.

Hamilton pushing Perez into the pitlane in COTA
Hamilton pushing running max out of road in Jeddah.

Personally, I think Lewis' good racing days are over. Now there is GR there alongside in the merc seat its either going to go 1 or 2 ways. They will be allowed to race without team orders. Or GR will be under huge team orders to let Lewis by.

[dans79]

Max, who had zero penalty points in a 12 month season span within the last 3 years

That's what happens when you spend almost all of the 2020 season in no man's land. It's kind of hard to collide with someone when you have a big gap ahead and behind you.

but take a look at how many points he got in 2021, when he had some one racing in close proximity to him.
https://racingnews365.com/who-scored-th ... -f1-season
Max - 7
Ham -2

[Dee]

Max, who had zero penalty points in a 12 month season span within the last 3 years

That's what happens when you spend almost all of the 2020 season in no man's land. It's kind of hard to collide with someone when you have a big gap ahead and behind you.

but take a look at how many points he got in 2021, when he had some one racing in close proximity to him.
https://racingnews365.com/who-scored-th ... -f1-season
Max - 7
Ham -2

That's what happens when you spend all of 2020 in no mans land...You must be talking about Hamilton then who received the most penalty points in that season out of all drivers and tied with Albon, in a car that was absolutely dominant https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/75740/ha ... -2020.html

Monza was a racing incident but stewards felt they needed to give him points after SIlverstone

In Jeddah he deserved some of the points he got, no idea why he was still given them when he had given the place back

[dans79]

In Jeddah he deserved some of the points he got, no idea why he was still given them when he had given the place back

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... lision.pdf

Fact Car 33 braked in a manner which caused a collision with Car 44 in turn 26.

Decision 10 second time penalty imposed after the race
(10 seconds added to elapsed race time).
2 penalty points (total of 7 for the 12 month period

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... antage.pdf

Fact Leaving the track and gaining a lasting advantage

Decision 5 second time penalty
1 penalty points (total of 5 for the 12 month period).

[chrisc90]

What happened in Bahrain when Hamilton was off the track 29 times? Was that not gaining a lasting advantage?

[AeroDynamic]

What happened in Bahrain when Hamilton was off the track 29 times? Was that not gaining a lasting advantage?

so were other drivers. Max and RBR just slept on the brief notes pre race. Max also slept on the rule about overtaking outside of the track (different rule)

[chrisc90]

What happened in Bahrain when Hamilton was off the track 29 times? Was that not gaining a lasting advantage?

so were other drivers. Max and RBR just slept on the brief notes pre race. Max also slept on the rule about overtaking outside of the track (different rule)

if that was the case, then why did they decide to stop people running wide shortly after RB told their drivers they could run wide?

[Dee]

In Jeddah he deserved some of the points he got, no idea why he was still given them when he had given the place back

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... lision.pdf

Fact Car 33 braked in a manner which caused a collision with Car 44 in turn 26.

Decision 10 second time penalty imposed after the race
(10 seconds added to elapsed race time).
2 penalty points (total of 7 for the 12 month period

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... antage.pdf

Fact Leaving the track and gaining a lasting advantage

Decision 5 second time penalty
1 penalty points (total of 5 for the 12 month period).

Max had given the place back at that point but was still penalised. Hamilton went off track at turn one, gained a lasting advantage and was never penalized.

Max pretty much got all his points in one race, the other was for yellow flags he never saw because he was looking at the other side of the track towards where Gasly's car was

This was not a pattern of behaviour throughout the year. He had one off race and Brazil and that was it.

[Dee]

What happened in Bahrain when Hamilton was off the track 29 times? Was that not gaining a lasting advantage?

so were other drivers. Max and RBR just slept on the brief notes pre race. Max also slept on the rule about overtaking outside of the track (different rule)

Max did not sleep on the notes pre race, he was going off track as much as the other drivers but not as much as what Hamilton was doing. When RB told him to repeat what Lewis was doing, they were told it was now banned. Changing of rules mid race, like in Abu Dhabi