Formula JDP proposal.

[Zynerji]

I don't see the point in having the driver tell how to set up the car if that's not a driver's job anymore.
I mean, why not ask the driver to develop the aerodynamics of the car instead?

Because it is a competition between the drivers via setup understanding. The drivers that have that engineering knowledge seem to do pretty well in F1.

It would be all about teaching drivers the important things to pay attention to, what changes effect over/under steer, mechanical grip and tyre preservation.

The cool part is that we (and young drivers) would get to learn along with them...

This is exactly what they do in junior formula's. Teams like Prema, Van Amersfoort, Carin, etc etc are specialised to learn kids that come out of karts how to set up a car and what setup does with a car and how to adopt your driving to it. They literally send young drivers out with completly a wrong setup (for instance, 10 degrees to much rear wing, or to much ride hight) and let them figure it out what's wrong.

I get all of that, but that is a recognized series that is way too serious to do what I'm talking about.

Package that F2 concept for a TV show that is all about doing the fastest lap with the driver making all setup decisions.

I think using v8 F2 cars would be fine as well. Even just using a current spec F2 car could be very reasonable for cost control.

Get Jenson, Kimi and Nico to each pick teams and maybe have a Champion coach angle as well...

[Rodak]

Just dig up a bunch of old F5000 cars.......

[JordanMugen]

Just dig up a bunch of old F5000 cars.......

American V8 stock-blocks are heavy (particularly the iron ones in F5000, 240kg), I'd rather use the Judd V10 (140kg) or the MCT V12 (145kg).

Or the AER twin-turbo V8 (110kg) but that engine doesn't sound very good. But any of these produce 700hp and are relatively light, albeit they all have shorter rebuild intervals compared to the less powerful Mechachrome GP2 V8s (~140kg).

In any case, why use a heavy production engine instead of a racing engine? The S5000 class in Australia uses production-based Ford V8s (the aluminium Coyote which is abouy 195kg), like I said the engines are really heavy and the cars are really slow (partly due to running very little downforce too, as well as being very heavy).



The cornering speeds are so slow compared to a normal open-wheel class like say Super Formula (below)! The S5000 cars could use about three times as much downforce.

[JordanMugen]

I think a screaming turbo 4 cylinder would be fun. Very mid-1980s.

Isn't that just Super Formula which already exists?

Mercedes, BMW and Audi already have engines (all proper racing engines) to the same regulations (DTM/SuperGT), so in theory you could run a European series too with up to all six different engines (Toyota, Honda, Nissan maybe badged as Renault, Mercedes, BMW and Audi).

It would be, in a way, a direct replacement for DTM but using Dallara open-wheelers instead of silhouette touring cars.

Perhaps Berger missed the mark with making DTM into GT3 racing, and should have at least created a Super Formula Euro series (or Formula D for Formula Deutsche) as perhaps a co-headline category for the DTM series!?

Like I said, for whatever reason, fans and sponsors don't seem that interested in open-wheel series below F1 and for whatever reason, even in Japan, the SuperGT class seems to be more popular than the open-wheel class. Whereas on the DTM series, there isn't even an concurrent (professional-level, yes there used to be the F3 Euro Series IIRC) open-wheel class at all!

I estimate it would cost about 50M to set up, but WOW would it be fun!

I guess the problem that Formula D would face is that it would be considerably more expensive than F2. Would there be enough interest from European sponsors and fans in watching "B-grade" drivers who aren't quite good enough for F1...?

Just for fun:

Formula D
Chassis Dallara SF19
Engine Honda/Toyota/Renault/Mercedes/BMW/Audi 2.0L inline-four turbo
Hankook 13" tyres (as per existing DTM commercial arrangements, Hankook already tendered for 13"+18" F1 tyre supply but were rejected)
Race length 305km Deutsche Prix + 155km Sprint Prix, or 4-5 x 100km with reverse grids for maximum action?
Circuits All DTM tracks + Brands Hatch GP + Magny Cours + Portimao etc




{Just pretend that says Ventus instead of Advan!}

[Just_a_fan]

I think a screaming turbo 4 cylinder would be fun. Very mid-1980s.

Isn't that just Super Formula which already exists?

Mercedes, BMW and Audi already have engines (all proper racing engines) to same regulations (DTM/SuperGT), so in theory you could run a European series too with up to all six different engines (Toyota, Honda, Nissan maybe badged as Renault, Mercedes, BMW and Audi).

It would be, in a way, a direct replacement for DTM but using Dallara open-wheelers instead of silhouette touring cars.

Perhaps Berger missed the mark with making DTM into GT3 racing, and should have at least created a Super Formula Euro series (or Formula D for Formula Deutsche) as perhaps a co-headline category for the DTM series!?

Like I said, for whatever reason, fans and sponsors don't seem that interested in open-wheel series below F1 and for whatever reason, even in Japan, the SuperGT class seems to be more popular than the open-wheel class. Whereas on the DTM series, there isn't even an concurrent open-wheel class at all!

Super Formula is 550bhp? I was thinking more like the Honda RA16-series engines. 800-1000bhp would make it "interesting".

[JordanMugen]

Super Formula is 550bhp? I was thinking more like the Honda RA16-series engines. 800-1000bhp would make it "interesting".

Ok!

Isn't it important that a lower-grade series is able to race on Grade 2 tracks like Brands Hatch GP, Sachsenring or Norisring?

SF are only 550hp, but they are 'very' light AFAIK (at least compared to a 798kg F1 car). Better 670kg+550hp than 900kg+900hp? Besides, it should be possible to turn up the boost on those SuperGT/DTM racing engines if so desired to whatever power level, at the expense of reduced rebuild intervals.

Anyway, at least we can all agree it is all Berger's fault for not adding an open-wheel category as co-headline for the DTM series. So De Vries and co only have slowish Formula E cars to drive instead of more powerful ICE open wheelers.

At least Japan does thing properly, even if Super Formula is a category of relatively minor interest with fans globally.

[Just_a_fan]

Super Formula is 550bhp? I was thinking more like the Honda RA16-series engines. 800-1000bhp would make it "interesting".

Ok!

Well, it is a "wouldn't it be nice" kind of thread.