Should Hamilton get a penalty for missing the ceremony?

[shamyakovic]

Only thing I can say is that the FIA included a 'must attend' phrase in that line of the code for a very valid reason. Whilst it doesnt directly state drivers/constructers who fail to attend should be penalised, im sure there will be sanctions for breaking the code, otherwise it wouldnt be worth having or adhering to if breaking the 'code' went unpunished.

There are rules for a race weekend, which everyone has to follow even media duties... but there is no rule for the gala.. it just states "must" and nothing more "must " doesnt mean "should" just like "any" doesn't mean "all". There is no rules attached with it which may be referred to the stewards and would lead to penalties.

I think the last paragraph was a bit uncalled for in terms of the discussion, Its not about the previous 8 years, or having hate for one driver, its the principle of following the rules.

Of course it's the last 8 years. You can see and feel that everywhere in social media.

[AeroDynamic]

There is implication in the phrase “must”, that is not there with “should”. It does not mention whether any sanction will be imposed; but the use of “must” is quite strong and leads to “I wonder what would happen if I don’t?”,when viewed in the negative.

Agreed… But, it could simply a fine, not related to what was posted in terms of “Sanctions”… Very different.

If the question is should Lewis get a fine, slap on the wrist or an e-mail stating he did wrong… I agree, he shouldn’t have missed the Gala if he was supposed to attend… If the question is if he should get any kind of penalty that will influence him on track (reprimands, points on his license, 10 second penalty, grid positions, etc)… That’s absurd.

The reason I included the sanctions section on there, is that I believe(d) that the sanctions section of the sporting code would be relevant to that document. Its a bit like a breach of the technical regs, and having a sanction from the sporting code or vice versa. It would seem relevant that a breach of the code, would be punished in the sanctions listed within that document.

You could have made that clear in your original post though. It's kind of misrepresenting things. If someone wants those outcomes I can see why they would think to link them together

[shamyakovic]

He signed the conditions to participate in the sport. One condition is you have to attend the price ceremony if you come 1st, 2nd or 3rd. He did not show up, so he did not hold on to his side of the agreement. If the FIA does not penalise him, expect no one to show up in the future.

So did the FIA hold up their side by following the rules in the last race? No, so Lewis is also not going to play ball with them.
Infact this was the very reason he didn't attend the party

[Stu]

Ok, I have read it
Could anyone tell me where is the rules it states that not attending the gala will lead to penalty?

There is implication in the phrase “must”, that is not there with “should”. It does not mention whether any sanction will be imposed; but the use of “must” is quite strong and leads to “I wonder what would happen if I don’t?”,when viewed in the negative.

Agreed… But, it could simply a fine, not related to what was posted in terms of “Sanctions”… Very different.

If the question is should Lewis get a fine, slap on the wrist or an e-mail stating he did wrong… I agree, he shouldn’t have missed the Gala if he was supposed to attend… If the question is if he should get any kind of penalty that will influence him on track (reprimands, points on his license, 10 second penalty, grid positions, etc)… That’s absurd.

Couldn’t agree more with that last part!

[SmallSoldier]

There is implication in the phrase “must”, that is not there with “should”. It does not mention whether any sanction will be imposed; but the use of “must” is quite strong and leads to “I wonder what would happen if I don’t?”,when viewed in the negative.

Agreed… But, it could simply a fine, not related to what was posted in terms of “Sanctions”… Very different.

If the question is should Lewis get a fine, slap on the wrist or an e-mail stating he did wrong… I agree, he shouldn’t have missed the Gala if he was supposed to attend… If the question is if he should get any kind of penalty that will influence him on track (reprimands, points on his license, 10 second penalty, grid positions, etc)… That’s absurd.

The reason I included the sanctions section on there, is that I believe(d) that the sanctions section of the sporting code would be relevant to that document. Its a bit like a breach of the technical regs, and having a sanction from the sporting code or vice versa. It would seem relevant that a breach of the code, would be punished in the sanctions listed within that document.

You are making that assumption, nowhere in the document does it say that those Sanctions that you posted are related to the infraction… You are simply building a narrative.

If the question is should Hamilton serve some sort of penalty for missing the ceremony? I’m incline to say yes… Is that a fine, community service, an apology or something similar, not up to me to decide what would be appropriate.

But, to bring up sanctions related to behavior during a race weekend, that specifically mention that are imposed by Stewards, is mixing to separate issues… For starters, those Sanctions you posted are to be imposed by Stewards, there are no Stewards for a “Gala Ceremony”… Even from a common sense stand point, penalizing in a way that it can have an effect on a race weekend for something that happens outside of it, it’s absurd.

[chrisc90]

Agreed… But, it could simply a fine, not related to what was posted in terms of “Sanctions”… Very different.

If the question is should Lewis get a fine, slap on the wrist or an e-mail stating he did wrong… I agree, he shouldn’t have missed the Gala if he was supposed to attend… If the question is if he should get any kind of penalty that will influence him on track (reprimands, points on his license, 10 second penalty, grid positions, etc)… That’s absurd.

The reason I included the sanctions section on there, is that I believe(d) that the sanctions section of the sporting code would be relevant to that document. Its a bit like a breach of the technical regs, and having a sanction from the sporting code or vice versa. It would seem relevant that a breach of the code, would be punished in the sanctions listed within that document.

You could have made that clear in your original post though. It's kind of misrepresenting things. If someone wants those outcomes I can see why they would think to link them together

I've cleared that up with reference to where each paragraph is from. If it helps the next guy who's just reading the thread, its a bonus. There should be no mis-representation now.

[chrisc90]

Agreed… But, it could simply a fine, not related to what was posted in terms of “Sanctions”… Very different.

If the question is should Lewis get a fine, slap on the wrist or an e-mail stating he did wrong… I agree, he shouldn’t have missed the Gala if he was supposed to attend… If the question is if he should get any kind of penalty that will influence him on track (reprimands, points on his license, 10 second penalty, grid positions, etc)… That’s absurd.

The reason I included the sanctions section on there, is that I believe(d) that the sanctions section of the sporting code would be relevant to that document. Its a bit like a breach of the technical regs, and having a sanction from the sporting code or vice versa. It would seem relevant that a breach of the code, would be punished in the sanctions listed within that document.

You are making that assumption, nowhere in the document does it say that those Sanctions that you posted are related to the infraction… You are simply building a narrative.

If the question is should Hamilton serve some sort of penalty for missing the ceremony? I’m incline to say yes… Is that a fine, community service, an apology or something similar, not up to me to decide what would be appropriate.

But, to bring up sanctions related to behavior during a race weekend, that specifically mention that are imposed by Stewards, is mixing to separate issues… For starters, those Sanctions you posted are to be imposed by Stewards, there are no Stewards for a “Gala Ceremony”… Even from a common sense stand point, penalizing in a way that it can have an effect on a race weekend for something that happens outside of it, it’s absurd.

That sanctions section is from the same document...the sporting code. Its not pick and dropped from other documents. - Ive cleared the first post up now, as I mentioned above.

[shamyakovic]

Agreed… But, it could simply a fine, not related to what was posted in terms of “Sanctions”… Very different.

If the question is should Lewis get a fine, slap on the wrist or an e-mail stating he did wrong… I agree, he shouldn’t have missed the Gala if he was supposed to attend… If the question is if he should get any kind of penalty that will influence him on track (reprimands, points on his license, 10 second penalty, grid positions, etc)… That’s absurd.

The reason I included the sanctions section on there, is that I believe(d) that the sanctions section of the sporting code would be relevant to that document. Its a bit like a breach of the technical regs, and having a sanction from the sporting code or vice versa. It would seem relevant that a breach of the code, would be punished in the sanctions listed within that document.

You could have made that clear in your original post though. It's kind of misrepresenting things. If someone wants those outcomes I can see why they would think to link them together

Couldn't agree more

[izzy]

He signed the conditions to participate in the sport. One condition is you have to attend the price ceremony if you come 1st, 2nd or 3rd. He did not show up, so he did not hold on to his side of the agreement. If the FIA does not penalise him, expect no one to show up in the future.

It would be brilliant if FIA held their self-aggrandising gala and nobody showed up

Meanwhile headlines everywhere have Lewis adding his mother's surname to his own, as he thinks THAT is important. Values and also how much power he has...

[Just_a_fan]

For what it is worth, I do not think that any penalty should be applied.
If they were to apply one it should be to make an appearance or two as an FIA ambassador.

The minimum penalty is a warning and doing public work (appearing as an ambassador, for example) is actually number 4 on the list.

The scale of penalties in the International sporting code:

• ARTICLE 12.4 SCALE OF PENALTIES
  
  12.4.1 Penalties may be inflicted as follows:
  12.4.1.a warning;
  12.4.1.b reprimand (blame);
  12.4.1.c fine;
  12.4.1.d obligation to accomplish some work of public interest;
  12.4.1.e deletion of a Driver’s qualifying and practice lap(s);
  12.4.1.f drop of grid position(s);
  12.4.1.g obligation for a Driver to start a race from the pit lane;
  12.4.1.h time penalty;
  12.4.1.i penalty lap(s);
  12.4.1.j drop of place(s) in the classification of the Competition;
  12.4.1.k drive-through penalty;
  12.4.1.l stop-and-go or stop-and-go with a prescribed stop time;
  12.4.1.m Disqualification;
  12.4.1.n Suspension;
  12.4.1.o Exclusion

[Just_a_fan]

Lewis was on 2 reprimands for the 2021 season so given the ruling in the sanctions it should be a 10 place grid drop at the next event.

But you miss the issue here: the use of a reprimand is only one possible penalty. The International Sporting Code gives the full list and a reprimand is but one of them. They could give him a simple warning or they could fine him. Both are available to them.

So "it should be a 10-place grid drop at the next event" is incorrect. It could be a simple warning. It could be full exclusion. It could be one of a whole list of things between.

If they're that bothered by it - and I'm guessing they're really not - then they could simply give a warning and add "anyone else that does this will be in big trouble - you've all been warned".

[McL-H]

He signed the conditions to participate in the sport. One condition is you have to attend the price ceremony if you come 1st, 2nd or 3rd. He did not show up, so he did not hold on to his side of the agreement. If the FIA does not penalise him, expect no one to show up in the future.

So did the FIA hold up their side by following the rules in the last race? No, so Lewis is also not going to play ball with them.
Infact this was the very reason he didn't attend the party

If he’d think the FIA did not follow an agreement they made, he should sue them and have a judge decide. Your opinion of the other party not following the rules does not exclude yourself from following them either. It’d be the wild west out there if that’d be how we’d all go at it.

[izzy]

If he’d think the FIA did not follow an agreement they made, he should sue them and have a judge decide. Your opinion of the other party not following the rules does not exclude yourself from following them either. It’d be the wild west out there if that’d be how we’d all go at it.

Perhaps Lewis would sue them if they tried to punish him for skipping their stupid self-admiring gala . Loss of earnings, for a start, for cheating him of a WDC. He could afford it after all, and holding an inquiry makes it pretty obvious that's what they did, when they're supposed to be the ones upholding sporting standards.

Honestly, an abyss awaits if they try. But they won't. The stewards and Peter Bayer can tell us lies about what the rules mean, but in front of your actual judge that won't work at all. So abandon hope of all that, peace will have broken out at the weekend. FIA will be nice about Lewis, and Lewis will be nice about FIA. "It mustn't happen to anyone else" was the deal he offered them, and they've wisely accepted.

[Shrieker]

Yes. He should receive a 5 race ban

[Watto]

No, Just move on.