2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[Darth-Piekus]

I said not in the top 3 like McLaren, Ferrari, Williams, Mercedes and Red Bull. I never said they were low budget teams.

In any case now that there is a budget cap and almost everyone is equalized we shall see if the bigger budget teams will be as effective as the lower ones.

[Mclarensenna]

Hondas car was nowhere near McLaren and Ferrari in 2008. I doubt the Mercedes would have changed that. While I never said that they were a low budget team they where not in the top 3. Toyota who had the biggest budget was beaten by both McLaren and Ferrari. Honda ended up 9th. Having a good budget did not translate in a good engine. In 2009 it took more than half the season for Red Bull to copy Ross Brawns double diffuser trick which made the difference in the end. Both Ferrari and McLaren failed to do anything significant with higher budgets.

My point is that a budget is not enough. You need to know how to use it.

Now this is the last time I am gonna talk about this non interesting topic. It would be wise to let it go.

Ross brawn himself said the chassis was good it was the engine that was the issue. He clearly stated and i remember this back then him saying Mercedes engine was a second quicker. This is absolutely massive hence why Honda struggled so much.

So yes if you look at the gaps the prior year and add a second to that honda car then yes it would have been at the sharp end of the grid fighting for wins. The Honda was a fast car in 2008. Brawn said this, confirmed this, and we saw with our own eyes how quick it was once the mercedes engine was basicaly shoe horned and jammed into it. And 3 teams rocked up at race 1 with double deck diffusers and brawn was quicker so the brawn pace was legit.

The budget is by far the most important thing. yes a high budget team can produce a poor car but it rarely happens. Look at the last 8 years in the hybrid era. The top 3 team budgets were Ferrari, Redbull, Merc. Not 1 car was been poor and not fighting for wins. The only poor years were redbull with vastly inferior engines and Ferrari last 2 years when they had a compromised engine. The teams budget has dictated the finishing positions (bar engine deficits) like almost clockwork the last 8 years.

Its as rare as hens teeth for a top budget team to make a poor actual car ( not including a huge engine deficit). It does happen but very very rare. But, what is impossible, is for a mid or low budget team (half the budget of the top teams or lower) to win. Its never happened. So budget in F1 has always been king.

Now we are moving to the budget cap era which should make a huge difference this year and next few years bar any major engine deficits.

[Emag]

In all honesty, it doesn't matter who achieved what decades ago.

Formula 1 is a lot more complicated now compared to what it was in 2009, and it's certainly a hell of a lot more complicated to what it was in the 90s.

With the tools everyone has on their disposal now, the boundary of mechanical and aerodynamic design is pushed to the extreme.

It no longer matters if your engine is the best, or if your suspension is the best, or if your aero is the best. If's not even about singular tricks like the double diffuser, or the blown diffuser, or the mass damper.

To be at the top of the current Formula, you need to be the best at everything. If something lacks, the whole thing is at risk of crumbling.

When more than just one thing is missing, that risk is considerably higher ...

[djos]

Despite my dislike of Google, I’m loving the look of the wheel covers with the Google colours on them!

After watching P1/2, I don’t think Mclaren did any low fuel runs at all. It looked like they just wanted to ensure the new brake system was durable and catch up on some missed running from last week.

[mwillems]

There is a lot of pace left in the Papsya car I'm sure. The team stated that they did no performance runs at all so I take this to mean all laps were to deltas.

Soon we will know the truth.

[genarro]

There is a lot of pace left in the Papsya car I'm sure. The team stated that they did no performance runs at all so I take this to mean all laps were to deltas.

Soon we will know the truth.

I hope you are right. At the moment it seems we underestimated the performance of the car which cought the whole team by surprise. Hence the brake problems and just the general vibe in the team. Just have a feeling that they are in panicking mode and are trying to hide it. It just looks like a slow car tbh.

So where do we go from here. One possibility is that a quick fix can transform the car. Not likely. Probably will need a lot of new development and because we have a budget cap we are pretty much stuck with this performance for the first couple of races in the season.

Oh well.... I really don't want to be a crybaby like a lot of people in this forum but as things stand at the moment we are in a dark place. Let's see what quali brings. The silver lining is that macca Is good in finding performance overnight so that gives me a glimpse of hope.

Anyway I hope I am wrong and that in about 8 hours I will eat my words.

[Fulcrum]

Speed trap data with DRS enabled:

https://i.imgur.com/GoeoQHq.jpg

Its pretty obvious looking at this graph that the Mercedes engines, in all cars, were not running at their highest potential power outputs. The possible exception being the Williams.

The biggest giveaway is the shape of the Williams distribution. Its bi-modal, indicating that Williams were likely running two power modes.

All of the other Mercedes-powered teams have a uni-modal distribution, which would suggest a single power mode was used throughout.

As to the speed hierarchy, excluding the 2nd mode from Williams, the speed ranking would be:
McLaren
Mercedes
Aston Martin
Williams

This wouldn't be entirely inconsistent with prior data.

Furthermore, if the bi-modal data of the Williams is representative of usage of a higher engine mode, then the average differential in top speed between modes is +-15km/hr.

Incorporating this into the observed data, we could see average and peak top speeds as follows:

McLaren: 320 average, 328 peak
Mercedes: 318 average, 325 peak
Aston: 317 average, 325 peak

Speculation on my part, but lets see what transpires. I don't think any of the teams were running 'full beans', more likely 'peak' sustainable race power (e.g. Ferrari and Red Bull), so perhaps even higher values may be achieved.

[McL-H]

I doubt anyone would be celebrating P10s anymore. If they are back to that level, I will just focus on the fight in front and ignore them for a while.

Yes, that’s what I’ll be doing too. I’ll be cheering for Ferrari this year then. About time for someone to bring Red Bull and Mercedes back to reality. I just wished it were McLaren doing that.. But who knows? We qualified at the back of the grid at the start of 2009 as well, but developed the car into a race winning car that won more points than anyone in the second half of the season. It’s possible to gain a lot under new regulations. We’ll see.

[McL-H]

There is a lot of pace left in the Papsya car I'm sure. The team stated that they did no performance runs at all so I take this to mean all laps were to deltas.

Soon we will know the truth.

Lando was driving to delta’s in FP2. It was visible on his steering wheel he needed to drive 1:40’s and 1:39’s. But you say the team says it did not do any performance runs, while Andrea Stella says we need to find more performance over midnight. So they must have done some performance laps somewhere, probably with high fuel. Also, Lando claiming they must find something to reach Q3 means they know what their performance is compared to the competition.

[mwillems]

There is a lot of pace left in the Papsya car I'm sure. The team stated that they did no performance runs at all so I take this to mean all laps were to deltas.

Soon we will know the truth.

I hope you are right. At the moment it seems we underestimated the performance of the car which cought the whole team by surprise. Hence the brake problems and just the general vibe in the team. Just have a feeling that they are in panicking mode and are trying to hide it. It just looks like a slow car tbh.

So where do we go from here. One possibility is that a quick fix can transform the car. Not likely. Probably will need a lot of new development and because we have a budget cap we are pretty much stuck with this performance for the first couple of races in the season.

Oh well.... I really don't want to be a crybaby like a lot of people in this forum but as things stand at the moment we are in a dark place. Let's see what quali brings. The silver lining is that macca Is good in finding performance overnight so that gives me a glimpse of hope.

Anyway I hope I am wrong and that in about 8 hours I will eat my words.

Yes I believe things are not so bad and the car is competitive but it does seem like this might not be our track either.

Not every opening track will suit your car but I don't think it means we are too slow.

Let's see how our stability on the straights helps us when the cars are turned up.

Our long run pace is a second off RB but in line with others if you look at the FP2 long runs, yet we did not use DRS.

It feels like we may have decent race pace and a stable car. For me this feels like Sunday will open up for us. We are also yet to see if Quali importance has diminished. If overtaking truly is better and we have a good race car then let's see.

[mwillems]

There is a lot of pace left in the Papsya car I'm sure. The team stated that they did no performance runs at all so I take this to mean all laps were to deltas.

Soon we will know the truth.

Lando was driving to delta’s in FP2. It was visible on his steering wheel he needed to drive 1:40’s and 1:39’s. But you say the team says it did not do any performance runs, while Andrea Stella says we need to find more performance over midnight. So they must have done some performance laps somewhere, probably with high fuel. Also, Lando claiming they must find something to reach Q3 means they know what their performance is compared to the competition.

Yeah so in a nutshell race pace looks good and quali weaker.

Let's see what that means because this may be a different racing dynamic and one lap pace may not be as critical as before.

Our platforms stability and consistency is something that will only shine through in the race but we know it looks good.

Have patience Mclarenistas

[1m0bius1]

I don't understand how they use the wind tunnel as an excuse. The cologne wind tunnel was one of thr best in the world. Having a new wind tunnel won't lead to a 1.3 second gap bring closed. It maybe, if any be a few tenths due to additional data being digested. It's all excuses

[Darth-Piekus]

I don't understand how they use the wind tunnel as an excuse. The cologne wind tunnel was one of thr best in the world. Having a new wind tunnel won't lead to a 1.3 second gap bring closed. It maybe, if any be a few tenths due to additional data being digested. It's all excuses

Now that you mentioned it I am curious. What difference can a new up to date simulator and better Wing Tunnel makes? How can it be translated in time?

[101FlyingDutchman]

Depends on the model size. And if I’m not mistaken it’s to do with the Cologne windtunnel only able to simulate a static model

[Darth-Piekus]

Can it give up to 2 seconds on a car?