Well looking at the data for qualifying they are as fast on the straights as Ferrari. You can't just say that this is where they are losing the performance, because they aren't (EDIT: well they are, but mere 1kmh), in relation to that pole lap by Charles.
it's not that bad.pantherxxx wrote: ↑19 Mar 2022, 23:42
Very poor drivability. It's a miracle that the gap is not bigger.
Speed traps don't show how quickly you accelerate. Much of the laptime won from a better PU comes from strong acceleration up to a drag limited terminal velocity, not the value of that terminal velocity.SmOgER wrote: ↑19 Mar 2022, 23:46Well looking at the data for qualifying they are as fast on the straights as Ferrari. You can't just say that this is where they are losing the performance, because they aren't (EDIT: well they are, but mere 1kmh), in relation to that pole lap by Charles.
Quali Speed Trap:
https://i.imgur.com/vvg6v3p.png
I think there is stil a lot to come from getting around the corner smartly too. Sooner on the power, sooner away from the corner the better the lap time even with the same top speedAR3-GP wrote: ↑19 Mar 2022, 23:50Speed traps don't show how quickly you accelerate. Much of the laptime won from a better PU comes from strong acceleration up to a drag limited terminal velocity, not the value of that terminal velocity.SmOgER wrote: ↑19 Mar 2022, 23:46Well looking at the data for qualifying they are as fast on the straights as Ferrari. You can't just say that this is where they are losing the performance, because they aren't (EDIT: well they are, but mere 1kmh), in relation to that pole lap by Charles.
Quali Speed Trap:
https://i.imgur.com/vvg6v3p.png
Ok so please post those numbers, so that we can understand what's going onAR3-GP wrote: ↑19 Mar 2022, 23:50Speed traps don't show how quickly you accelerate. Much of the laptime won from a better PU comes from strong acceleration up to a drag limited terminal velocity, not the value of that terminal velocity.SmOgER wrote: ↑19 Mar 2022, 23:46Well looking at the data for qualifying they are as fast on the straights as Ferrari. You can't just say that this is where they are losing the performance, because they aren't (EDIT: well they are, but mere 1kmh), in relation to that pole lap by Charles.
Quali Speed Trap:
https://i.imgur.com/vvg6v3p.png
I don't have those numbers. I was only pointing out that speed traps don't tell the whole picture ( except in the case where a certain manufacturer is clustered around the bottom with teams all using difference concepts).shamyakovic wrote: ↑19 Mar 2022, 23:58Ok so please post those numbers, so that we can understand what's going onAR3-GP wrote: ↑19 Mar 2022, 23:50Speed traps don't show how quickly you accelerate. Much of the laptime won from a better PU comes from strong acceleration up to a drag limited terminal velocity, not the value of that terminal velocity.SmOgER wrote: ↑19 Mar 2022, 23:46
Well looking at the data for qualifying they are as fast on the straights as Ferrari. You can't just say that this is where they are losing the performance, because they aren't (EDIT: well they are, but mere 1kmh), in relation to that pole lap by Charles.
Quali Speed Trap:
https://i.imgur.com/vvg6v3p.png
shamyakovic wrote: ↑19 Mar 2022, 23:58Ok so please post those numbers, so that we can understand what's going onAR3-GP wrote: ↑19 Mar 2022, 23:50Speed traps don't show how quickly you accelerate. Much of the laptime won from a better PU comes from strong acceleration up to a drag limited terminal velocity, not the value of that terminal velocity.SmOgER wrote: ↑19 Mar 2022, 23:46
Well looking at the data for qualifying they are as fast on the straights as Ferrari. You can't just say that this is where they are losing the performance, because they aren't (EDIT: well they are, but mere 1kmh), in relation to that pole lap by Charles.
Quali Speed Trap:
https://i.imgur.com/vvg6v3p.png
So no numbers, just speculationsAR3-GP wrote: ↑20 Mar 2022, 00:01I don't have those numbers. I was only pointing out that speed traps don't tell the whole picture ( except in the case where a certain manufacturer is clustered around the bottom with teams all using difference concepts).shamyakovic wrote: ↑19 Mar 2022, 23:58Ok so please post those numbers, so that we can understand what's going on
I actually do not know what you are arguing about. I only made a comment that speed traps don't tell how quickly you accelerate and that a "better PU" wins it's laptime in the early acceleration phase.shamyakovic wrote: ↑20 Mar 2022, 00:13So no numbers, just speculationsAR3-GP wrote: ↑20 Mar 2022, 00:01I don't have those numbers. I was only pointing out that speed traps don't tell the whole picture ( except in the case where a certain manufacturer is clustered around the bottom with teams all using difference concepts).shamyakovic wrote: ↑19 Mar 2022, 23:58
Ok so please post those numbers, so that we can understand what's going on
So the certain manufacturers clustered in the bottom... OK I would ask u to look at last years quali at Bahrain... excpet for merc/mclaren everyone else were clustered in the bottom. And it has been the same for the last few years.
There were several races last year where the only top merecdes engine team was just the factory team. AM, Williams were always mostly in the bottom of the list last year, mclaren also were sometimes up there or sometimes out of q3. Mclaren today has been having so serious issues with their brakes and have been doing so many compromises with it.
So was it any indication of poor engine last year too?
Speed traps also shows that Latifi has been faster on all speed traps that the pole sitter. How will u quantify that? Mercedes faster than ferrari?organic wrote: ↑20 Mar 2022, 00:02shamyakovic wrote: ↑19 Mar 2022, 23:58Ok so please post those numbers, so that we can understand what's going on
Intermediate traps should help right?
I was responding to you comment above which is bold and underlinedAR3-GP wrote: ↑20 Mar 2022, 00:16I actually do not know what you are arguing about. I only made a comment that speed traps don't tell how quickly you accelerate and that a "better PU" wins it's laptime in the early acceleration phase.shamyakovic wrote: ↑20 Mar 2022, 00:13So no numbers, just speculations
So the certain manufacturers clustered in the bottom... OK I would ask u to look at last years quali at Bahrain... excpet for merc/mclaren everyone else were clustered in the bottom. And it has been the same for the last few years.
There were several races last year where the only top merecdes engine team was just the factory team. AM, Williams were always mostly in the bottom of the list last year, mclaren also were sometimes up there or sometimes out of q3. Mclaren today has been having so serious issues with their brakes and have been doing so many compromises with it.
So was it any indication of poor engine last year too?
But the Merc was a poor engine last season. I'm not sure how much you were aware, but all Merc engines last year had high degradation after 1 or 2 race weekends. The customer teams were "encouraged" to use "only" 4 PUs so they were using conservative engine maps. You should check the old threads and news articles but it was estimated that the Merc PU would start very high, and go backwards to the level of the Renault PU after 3 to 4 weekends.shamyakovic wrote: ↑20 Mar 2022, 00:13So no numbers, just speculationsAR3-GP wrote: ↑20 Mar 2022, 00:01I don't have those numbers. I was only pointing out that speed traps don't tell the whole picture ( except in the case where a certain manufacturer is clustered around the bottom with teams all using difference concepts).shamyakovic wrote: ↑19 Mar 2022, 23:58
Ok so please post those numbers, so that we can understand what's going on
So the certain manufacturers clustered in the bottom... OK I would ask u to look at last years quali at Bahrain... excpet for merc/mclaren everyone else were clustered in the bottom. And it has been the same for the last few years.
There were several races last year where the only top merecdes engine team was just the factory team. AM, Williams were always mostly in the bottom of the list last year, mclaren also were sometimes up there or sometimes out of q3. Mclaren today has been having so serious issues with their brakes and have been doing so many compromises with it.
So was it any indication of poor engine last year too?
Yeah it was an isolated season for engines to degrade.. but I don't know where u got that they will go backwards to renault pu level. But Williams and Racing point has been languishing in the bottom foe very long time. That doesn't make it the engines fault. You are just clutching on straws.AR3-GP wrote: ↑20 Mar 2022, 00:29But the Merc was a poor engine last season. I'm not sure how much you were aware, but all Merc engines last year had high degradation after 1 or 2 race weekends. The customer teams were "encouraged" to use "only" 4 PUs so they were using conservative engine maps. You should check the old threads and news articles but it was estimated that the Merc PU would start very high, and go backwards to the level of the Renault PU after 3 to 4 weekends.shamyakovic wrote: ↑20 Mar 2022, 00:13So no numbers, just speculations
So the certain manufacturers clustered in the bottom... OK I would ask u to look at last years quali at Bahrain... excpet for merc/mclaren everyone else were clustered in the bottom. And it has been the same for the last few years.
There were several races last year where the only top merecdes engine team was just the factory team. AM, Williams were always mostly in the bottom of the list last year, mclaren also were sometimes up there or sometimes out of q3. Mclaren today has been having so serious issues with their brakes and have been doing so many compromises with it.
So was it any indication of poor engine last year too?
So again speculations, no facts. If u don't know please don't speculateAnyway, I don't know for certain why the W13 is slow on the straights as many factors come into play, but just noting I don't feel it's coincidence that Ferrari is near the top (at the expense of Merc teams). I hope the thread wardens don't find this too off topic.