Mercedes W13

[siskue2005]

Speed at the start finish line
great info
https://serving.photos.photobox.com/846 ... 8a5e7a.jpg

So The merc was as fast or faster than all the other top 3 teams. Kind of lends support to the belife thats they messed with the mappings and wing settings to compensate for the increased ride height!

indeed

[mantikos]

Interesting that Toto said the car is very draggy in the sky interview after qualifying.

With respect to the barn door rear wing, they don't have the additional bits on there yet that'll allow them to reduce the draggy rear wing.

[AMG.Tzan]

Toto said they were "overwinged" yet they were still missing rear downforce the drivers said!

The wings on this car look bigger than their competitors' since Day 1 of testing which has me a bit worried about the rest of the season! Apparently Mercedes' diffuser isn't as efficient as RB's and Ferrari's and porpoising is also a factor here but still if there wasn't porpoising I don't think Mercedes would have been up there with them!

We need a big upgrade soon and I don't see how they'll manage to do that with the time and money constraints from the budget cap!

Race pace is even worst than qualifying pace I think! I don't know how Lewis managed to keep up with Sainz at the start...

I expect Jeddah to be a really bad race for Mercedes with all those drag issues...

They are carrying more wing because they are having to run the car higher off the floor to reduce the porpoising. That doesn't mean the diffuser is less efficient, it just means the floor is less effective because it is running at a less-than-ideal height.

There is talk of a serious upgrade at Imola which, if so and if effective, isn't too bad. Until the, they just need to take whatever points they can - it's a long season so it's still all to play for.

Imola upgrade! Interesting...reminds me of the old times (90s) when teams brought their new cars or a big upgrade at Imola!

Scrabs said that the zero sidepods philosophy has increased drag because there's nothing to manage the air before they reach the rear wheels! I'm curious to see Mercedes is going to manage this problem...

[OO7]

Toto said they were "overwinged" yet they were still missing rear downforce the drivers said!

The wings on this car look bigger than their competitors' since Day 1 of testing which has me a bit worried about the rest of the season! Apparently Mercedes' diffuser isn't as efficient as RB's and Ferrari's and porpoising is also a factor here but still if there wasn't porpoising I don't think Mercedes would have been up there with them!

We need a big upgrade soon and I don't see how they'll manage to do that with the time and money constraints from the budget cap!

Race pace is even worst than qualifying pace I think! I don't know how Lewis managed to keep up with Sainz at the start...

I expect Jeddah to be a really bad race for Mercedes with all those drag issues...

They are carrying more wing because they are having to run the car higher off the floor to reduce the porpoising. That doesn't mean the diffuser is less efficient, it just means the floor is less effective because it is running at a less-than-ideal height.

There is talk of a serious upgrade at Imola which, if so and if effective, isn't too bad. Until the, they just need to take whatever points they can - it's a long season so it's still all to play for.

Imola upgrade! Interesting...reminds me of the old times (90s) when teams brought their new cars or a big upgrade at Imola!

Scrabs said that the zero sidepods philosophy has increased drag because there's nothing to manage the air before they reach the rear wheels! I'm curious to see Mercedes is going to manage this problem...

I don't think it's a problem per se. The likely philosophy is that the car will produce enough D/F to offset the higher drag.

[VacuousFlamboyant]

Speed at the start finish line
great info
https://serving.photos.photobox.com/846 ... 8a5e7a.jpg

Merc didn't lose much on the straights. Race maximum speeds disclosed by FIA also suggest that. Nonetheless, there's a small deficit to Ferrari's PU in low RPM. That points rather to the energy recovery system, not the ICE, which is frozen.

The downwash created by those inlets may produce a lot of drag on straights and a peak downforce that is besides the point. It produces continuous downforce, leading to porpoising at high speeds. I don't think there's a correlation between the rear wing or a setup and the fundamental problem with drag.

As I see it, the main issue Mercedes will face is the lower crash structure. They could retain a small sidepod design If they have it under (inside, irl) the floor or, perhaps, let it hang like the mirror. Something in between the Barcelona specs with a small undercut, a concept closer to the early spec. Flip it?

[AR3-GP]

Winning a championship is all about building a car to maximize the performance over 22 race tracks. It's an optimization problem. The concept may bring them so much more performance on tracks that don't penalize drag, that their above average results at the cornering tracks compensates for the weaker results on tracks that reward efficiency. Their concept might be the new high altitude Red Bull for example.

[Henri]

Winning a championship is all about building a car to maximize the performance over 22 race tracks. It's an optimization problem. The concept may bring them so much more performance on tracks that don't penalize drag, that their above average results at the cornering tracks compensates for the weaker results on tracks that reward efficiency. Their concept might be the new high altitude Red Bull for example.

Yeah. The car has good aero. It will be good in monaco and hungary

[izzy]

Winning a championship is all about building a car to maximize the performance over 22 race tracks. It's an optimization problem. The concept may bring them so much more performance on tracks that don't penalize drag, that their above average results at the cornering tracks compensates for the weaker results on tracks that reward efficiency. Their concept might be the new high altitude Red Bull for example.

I don't think we've really seen the concept in action yet, I think it's been messed up by the porpoising which is why it's been raised and had that fat rear wing on. I'm expecting some change in Jeddah already - perhaps a bigger beam wing and a shallower main wing, and running lower. I might be disappointed but I'm thinking it could easily be a completely different car drag wise.

[Just_a_fan]

Winning a championship is all about building a car to maximize the performance over 22 race tracks. It's an optimization problem. The concept may bring them so much more performance on tracks that don't penalize drag, that their above average results at the cornering tracks compensates for the weaker results on tracks that reward efficiency. Their concept might be the new high altitude Red Bull for example.

I don't think we've really seen the concept in action yet, I think it's been messed up by the porpoising which is why it's been raised and had that fat rear wing on. I'm expecting some change in Jeddah already - perhaps a bigger beam wing and a shallower main wing, and running lower. I might be disappointed but I'm thinking it could easily be a completely different car drag wise.

I have a slight suspicion about the wings - they launched the car with the big rear wing and took it to Barcelona. Why would they do that unless they either expected an issue with the floor or the wing was the intended rear wing all the time? Something just niggles about it.

[gluon]

Ride height comparison Mercedes vs Haas. Mercedes seems to be a bit higher at the front/middle and perhaps the same or even lower at the back. The perspective might be a bit misleading, but maybe a bit of negative rake on Mercedes.

[HungarianRacer]

Ride height comparison Mercedes vs Haas. Mercedes seems to be a bit higher at the front/middle and perhaps the same or even lower at the back. The perspective might be a bit misleading, but maybe a bit of negative rake on Mercedes.

At that point HAM might already be on the throttle slightly while MAG still rolling into the corner, which might exeggarate the difference a little, but yeah, it's definitely abnormal to have the front of the floor that high up in a slow corner like that.

[izzy]

Winning a championship is all about building a car to maximize the performance over 22 race tracks. It's an optimization problem. The concept may bring them so much more performance on tracks that don't penalize drag, that their above average results at the cornering tracks compensates for the weaker results on tracks that reward efficiency. Their concept might be the new high altitude Red Bull for example.

I don't think we've really seen the concept in action yet, I think it's been messed up by the porpoising which is why it's been raised and had that fat rear wing on. I'm expecting some change in Jeddah already - perhaps a bigger beam wing and a shallower main wing, and running lower. I might be disappointed but I'm thinking it could easily be a completely different car drag wise.

I have a slight suspicion about the wings - they launched the car with the big rear wing and took it to Barcelona. Why would they do that unless they either expected an issue with the floor or the wing was the intended rear wing all the time? Something just niggles about it.

Yes I know what you mean, it niggles me too, but the fact we notice it means it's out of place don't you think? I mean Mercedes have been so strong on efficiency up to now.

[Just_a_fan]

Ride height comparison Mercedes vs Haas. Mercedes seems to be a bit higher at the front/middle and perhaps the same or even lower at the back. The perspective might be a bit misleading, but maybe a bit of negative rake on Mercedes.

https://i.imgur.com/vaCZWQ2.jpg

There was a suggestion that they had had to set the car up with a higher ride height. This was to try to counter oversteer.

[atanatizante]

There`s a good article on Motorsport.com explaining how the low-drag F1 wing helped Red Bull top Bahrain GP speed traps: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... g/9199208/

Just see what`s the difference between W13`s rear wing and RB18`s one :

[SuperCNJ]

I'm just curious as to whether they can stop the porpoising without compromising the aero with a simple suspension tweak such as using progressive springs or more extreme progressive springs (assuming they are already using them) that provide more resistance the more it is compressed? Would that prevent the car "bottoming out" by limiting how low the back of the car can get as the downforce increases?

I'm no expert and I'm sure Merc would have considered this already if it helped but just a thought that came to mind.