2022 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, May 27 - 29

[GrizzleBoy]

So you just quoted the overtaking guidelines, which says lewis shoulf have been given room. His front wheels were well alongside ocon well before the apex, the only reason they arent alongside ocon at the apex is because lewis had already started to back out of it, ocon just turned in at the usual point regardless

Still not sure what he expected. How far do wheels have to be alongside before its classed as entitlement to the corner?

The youtube clip does show Lewis about 1/3 of the way alongside Ocon, but he was never ever going to make the corner regardless, since you would never get 2 cars around the corner.

Maybe thats the way to overtake at monaco, just send it up the inside and claim rights to the corner and claim the car infront turned in on you.

The streamja clip is just plain stupidity from Lewis.

The stewards in their ruling cited the relevant regulations which entitled Hamilton to racing room from the defending driver, so I guess that's your answer.

He was entitled to racing room based on his position next to Ocon.

Ocon didn't give any, including literally putting Lewis into the wall a couple laps later, and got a penalty

I don't see it as controversial.

What is controversial is each Williams driver doing just as much as blocking reqyired of each Ferrari by ignoring blue flags extensively to allow each Red Bull to overtake each Ferrari.

Even ignoring blue flags for a whole lap in Albons case, only finally getting out of the way by spinning off the damn track at turn one on the next lap...

And not a single penalty, reprimand, warning, incident noted, for any of it, despite their direct rule breaking literally deciding the outcome of the race?

I still need this explaining to me he somebody.

How is that possible? How is any of that okay?

Does this mean an Alfa Romeo can block Max/Sergio for an entire lap on say somewhere like Hungary under blue flags allowing Leclerc or Sainz to jump them?

And if the answer is no, how will the stewards defend the precedent they just set of the Williams cars doing thatbexqct same thing at Monaco of all places without even a note of incident?

[chrisc90]

So you just quoted the overtaking guidelines, which says lewis shoulf have been given room. His front wheels were well alongside ocon well before the apex, the only reason they arent alongside ocon at the apex is because lewis had already started to back out of it, ocon just turned in at the usual point regardless

Still not sure what he expected. How far do wheels have to be alongside before its classed as entitlement to the corner?

The youtube clip does show Lewis about 1/3 of the way alongside Ocon, but he was never ever going to make the corner regardless, since you would never get 2 cars around the corner.

Maybe thats the way to overtake at monaco, just send it up the inside and claim rights to the corner and claim the car infront turned in on you.

The streamja clip is just plain stupidity from Lewis.

The stewards in their ruling cited the relevant regulations which entitled Hamilton to racing room from the defending driver, so I guess that's your answer.

He was entitled to racing room based on his position next to Ocon.

Ocon didn't give any, including literally putting Lewis into the wall a couple laps later, and got a penalty

I don't see it as controversial.

What is controversial is each Williams driver doing just as much as blocking reqyired of each Ferrari by ignoring blue flags extensively to allow each Red Bull to overtake each Ferrari.

Even ignoring blue flags for a whole lap in Albons case, only finally getting out of the way by spinning off the damn track at turn one on the next lap...

And not a single penalty, reprimand, warning, incident noted, for any of it, despite their direct rule breaking literally deciding the outcome of the race?

I still need this explaining to me he somebody.

How is that possible? How is any of that okay?

Does this mean an Alfa Romeo can block Max/Sergio for an entire lap on say somewhere like Hungary under blue flags allowing Leclerc or Sainz to jump them?

And if the answer is no, how will the stewards defend the precedent they just set of the Williams cars doing thatbexqct same thing at Monaco of all places without even a note of incident?

I’m actually surprised Ferrari didn’t bring this up with the stewards. I feel they would have had more of a case than the path they went down with the pit exit. It’s actually crazy the Williams got away with that.

[Shrieker]

What is controversial is each Williams driver doing just as much as blocking reqyired of each Ferrari by ignoring blue flags extensively to allow each Red Bull to overtake each Ferrari.

Even ignoring blue flags for a whole lap in Albons case, only finally getting out of the way by spinning off the damn track at turn one on the next lap...

And not a single penalty, reprimand, warning, incident noted, for any of it, despite their direct rule breaking literally deciding the outcome of the race?

I still need this explaining to me he somebody.

How is that possible? How is any of that okay?

Does this mean an Alfa Romeo can block Max/Sergio for an entire lap on say somewhere like Hungary under blue flags allowing Leclerc or Sainz to jump them?

And if the answer is no, how will the stewards defend the precedent they just set of the Williams cars doing thatbexqct same thing at Monaco of all places without even a note of incident?

%100 concurred Grizzle.

The worst part is, this sets a dangerous precedent. It's ironic that the rules are written to prevent exactly this sort of thing, yet they're not enforced. In this case, the williams drivers weren't even investigated.

Is this a joke ?

[JonoNic]

I wonder if Ferrari engineers are forced to speak English about strategy or technical issues on team radio during races. I'm not referring to Vettel's messages where he thanks the team in Italian. For the sake of broadcasting rights maybe?

Seems like there's always a loss in translation with their strategy calls.

[lh13]

What is controversial is each Williams driver doing just as much as blocking reqyired of each Ferrari by ignoring blue flags extensively to allow each Red Bull to overtake each Ferrari.

Even ignoring blue flags for a whole lap in Albons case, only finally getting out of the way by spinning off the damn track at turn one on the next lap...

And not a single penalty, reprimand, warning, incident noted, for any of it, despite their direct rule breaking literally deciding the outcome of the race?

I still need this explaining to me he somebody.

How is that possible? How is any of that okay?

Does this mean an Alfa Romeo can block Max/Sergio for an entire lap on say somewhere like Hungary under blue flags allowing Leclerc or Sainz to jump them?

And if the answer is no, how will the stewards defend the precedent they just set of the Williams cars doing thatbexqct same thing at Monaco of all places without even a note of incident?

%100 concurred Grizzle.

The worst part is, this sets a dangerous precedent. It's ironic that the rules are written to prevent exactly this sort of thing, yet they're not enforced. In this case, the williams drivers weren't even investigated.

Is this a joke ?

It is also strange that Ferrari did not do anything about it. No complaints to the stewards during the race and no protest afterwards.

People say that Horner runs his mouth too much and complains about every little thing but the reality is that he gets the job done for this team, no matter the means. Mattia is struggling in the regard.

[LM10]

What is controversial is each Williams driver doing just as much as blocking reqyired of each Ferrari by ignoring blue flags extensively to allow each Red Bull to overtake each Ferrari.

Even ignoring blue flags for a whole lap in Albons case, only finally getting out of the way by spinning off the damn track at turn one on the next lap...

And not a single penalty, reprimand, warning, incident noted, for any of it, despite their direct rule breaking literally deciding the outcome of the race?

I still need this explaining to me he somebody.

How is that possible? How is any of that okay?

Does this mean an Alfa Romeo can block Max/Sergio for an entire lap on say somewhere like Hungary under blue flags allowing Leclerc or Sainz to jump them?

And if the answer is no, how will the stewards defend the precedent they just set of the Williams cars doing thatbexqct same thing at Monaco of all places without even a note of incident?

%100 concurred Grizzle.

The worst part is, this sets a dangerous precedent. It's ironic that the rules are written to prevent exactly this sort of thing, yet they're not enforced. In this case, the williams drivers weren't even investigated.

Is this a joke ?

It is also strange that Ferrari did not do anything about it. No complaints to the stewards during the race and no protest afterwards.

This would have not changed anything I’m afraid. Williams would have gotten a time penalty or something like that.
Talking about it publicly like Binotto did seems to be the best way to make others aware of what happened.

[DChemTech]

Also, the question is whether any regulation was actually breached by williams. If he let sainz pass within the required number of posts, on what ground could they penalize him?

[dialtone]

Also, the question is whether any regulation was actually breached by williams. If he let sainz pass within the required number of posts, on what ground could they penalize him?

you can't ignore blue flags

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... CgmkS.html

[214270]

I’ve seen the onboard and maintain LAT didn’t cost SAI any meaningful time…but let’s be generous for arguments sake & attribute a 1:32.573 to SAI (ie LAT cost him 1.5secs). His out was still a lot slower than many other competitors.

Sainz: 1:34.073 - 22
Verstappen: 1:31.284 – 23
Norris: 1:29.262 – 23
Vettel: 1:31.072 – 24
Gasly: 1:32.315 - 23
Alonso: 1:33.462 - 22
Leclerc: 1:32.589 – 22
Tsunoda: 1:33.748 – 22
Ocon: 1:37.375 – 22
Hamilton: 1:29.726 – 23
Russell: 1:31.920 – 22
Bottas: 1:35.899 - 21

PER monstered his inlap too compared to other inter runners. Ferrari lost it by being slow to react to PER speed on the inters and by SAI being too conservative on his out, not because of LAT. Cred: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... ame=iossmf

[DChemTech]

Also, the question is whether any regulation was actually breached by williams. If he let sainz pass within the required number of posts, on what ground could they penalize him?

you can't ignore blue flags

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... CgmkS.html

Isn't the real rule that you should allow the car to pass on the first feasible moment and at least within 3 stewarding posts? The first part of that is open for interpretation (and in Monaco, there are few locations that are feasible overtaking locations - main straight, uphill, tunnel, and Latifi let Sainz by in the tunnel). The second part is quite clear. So if indeed tunnel was the first feasible location and they did not pass three posts in that timeframe, he was not ignoring the flag. The rule is not 'move away instantly' (and the current implementation is already more strict than it used to be in the past). Now, I don't know how many posts were passed, so that's my question: was he actually breaking the rule (and hence could be penalized), or was he simply abiding the rules as written, which might have been a nuisance for Sainz, but is not penalizable.

[basti313]

I’ve seen the onboard and maintain LAT didn’t cost SAI any meaningful time…but let’s be generous for arguments sake & attribute a 1:32.573 to SAI (ie LAT cost him 1.5secs). His out was still a lot slower than many other competitors.

Sainz: 1:34.073 - 22
Verstappen: 1:31.284 – 23
Norris: 1:29.262 – 23
Vettel: 1:31.072 – 24
Gasly: 1:32.315 - 23
Alonso: 1:33.462 - 22
Leclerc: 1:32.589 – 22
Tsunoda: 1:33.748 – 22
Ocon: 1:37.375 – 22
Hamilton: 1:29.726 – 23
Russell: 1:31.920 – 22
Bottas: 1:35.899 - 21

PER monstered his inlap too compared to other inter runners. Ferrari lost it by being slow to react to PER speed on the inters and by SAI being too conservative on his out, not because of LAT. Cred: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comme ... ame=iossmf

I totally agree. LAT played a minor role, SAI was never really close. If LAT would have really held up SAI, he would have been very close in the corners.
All inlaps of both Ferrari drivers were poor, I think this is the core point that cost them. Also the double sack pitstop would have worked....if SAI would have been a bit quicker on the inlap and LEC was not even fast in any way, he lost 3sec to Perez only on the inlap on the same tire where at most half can be accounted to the waiting.

[214270]

Folks are preoccupied with the stewards decision but the major thing which isn’t being discussed is the FIA taking a sledgehammer to any clarifications/circuit specific inclusions in the RDs notes which might differ from the sporting regs. To conclude that the RDs notes have no weight relative to the sporting regs is dumb. There absolutely needs to be a mechanism for separate instruction which might be in tension with the regs; every circuit is different.

Sledgehammer. The rule clarifications/loopholes usually covered in the RDs notes bear no weight moving forward.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/the- ... /10314213/

[RZS10]

[...]
Isn't the real rule that you should allow the car to pass on the first feasible moment and at least within 3 stewarding posts?
[...]

Do you know where the second part is from?

Mazepin last year was penalized for breaking Appendix H, Article 2.5.5.1.d) of the ISC when he turned in with Perez approaching and ignored 5 blue flags.

d) Light blue flag
This should normally be waved, as an indication to a driver that he is about to be overtaken. [...]
During the race:
The flag should normally be shown to a car about to be lapped, if the driver does not seem to be making full use of his rear-view mirrors. When shown, the driver concerned must allow the following car to pass at the earliest opportunity.

This is now 2.5.5.1 e) but the wording is the same.

Appendix L Chapter IV says drivers must abide by Appendix H and further in 2.a)

a) A car alone on the track may use the full width of the said track, however, as soon as it is caught by a car which is about to lap it the driver must allow the faster driver past at the first possible opportunity.
If the driver who has been caught does not seem to make full use of the rear-view mirrors, flag marshals will display the waved blue flag to indicate that the faster driver wants to overtake.
Any driver who appears to ignore the blue flags will be reported to the Stewards.

I can't find any rule which quantifies the number of posts or flags drivers can pass without repercussions.

____________________________________

With regards to the above ... yea - now the notes are only worth anything when they cover things that are not specified in any rules, otherwise they're scrap.

[dialtone]

Folks are preoccupied with the stewards decision but the major thing which isn’t being discussed is the FIA taking a sledgehammer to any clarifications/circuit specific inclusions in the RDs notes which might differ from the sporting regs. To conclude that the RDs notes have no weight relative to the sporting regs is dumb. There absolutely needs to be a mechanism for separate instruction which might be in tension with the regs; every circuit is different.

Sledgehammer. The rule clarifications/loopholes usually covered in the RDs notes bear no weight moving forward.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/the- ... /10314213/

RD and FIA truly the embarrassing ones

[tpe]

Or simply FIA wants to remove any connection with the past.