2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[SiLo]

I find it funny that fans must argue about the drivers from a team they support. Heck even if you support a driver, you can just say "I think George is driving really well right now" without having to compare to Lewis in any way. Anyone with eyes can see that there have been some extenuating circumstances during races so far that have helped widen the points gap.

[Big Tea]

I find it funny that fans must argue about the drivers from a team they support. Heck even if you support a driver, you can just say "I think George is driving really well right now" without having to compare to Lewis in any way. Anyone with eyes can see that there have been some extenuating circumstances during races so far that have helped widen the points gap.

Just because someone supports a team does not mean they must blindly follow the 'party line' and they can do no wrong. Anything questionable should be questioned (within reason).

I am not saying slagged off or derogatory remarks or calls of 'the sky is falling', but if things are not right, then that is what it is if its your team or not.

[Incognito]

I'm interested that such repetitive rabble rousing is being deemed as 'valid'.

Hamilton had Championship battles during the Hybrid era, with Ferrari. The myth that there was only a fight when RBR and Verstappen finally justified their massive budget and ownership of 20% of the field is just that, a myth. Primarily propagated by people who dislike Hamilton and/or have a boner for Verstappen.

The idea that Hamilton could just cruise around until last year and never had to fight or struggle is also a myth. He's had years with none-Championship cars (during which he won at least one race every year) and has had three WDCs as team mates. All of whom he beat. He's beaten Vettel, when both were in similar cars, and it's hard to say that he wasn't at least competitive with Verstappen last year, despite his age and long COVID.

These arguments have played out hundreds of times on this website. All equally pointlessly and to the detriment of the community and atmosphere.

So what's left? That Hamilton is struggling this season. Well, he's not leading the WDC so that's demonstrably true. But to say that Russell's performing far better because he's leading the races 6-1 and ignore the context? It's hard to imagine that this is what you'd want put forward as an example of this website's best analysis.

But perhaps it is. In which case, we've missed an opportunity! Verstappen is only leading Perez 4-3 and we've reams of evidence that Perez is a number 2 driver in the mould of Barichello. How bad must Verstappen be?
Perhaps I should go to the Red Bull thread and spend every day posting this 'valid argument' to enhance the discussion over there? I could mention the 'valid' point that Verstappen clearly refuses to have a competitive driver in the other seat. The 'valid' observation that Red Bull own half-the field and still couldn't produce a competitive car and driver until the FIA executed one of the most obvious fixes in sporting history. Etc, etc. If posting that sort of rubbish would be frowned upon (and rightly so) then why is the crap polluting the last few pages allowed?

[Stu]

I'm interested that such repetitive rabble rousing is being deemed as 'valid'.

Hamilton had Championship battles during the Hybrid era, with Ferrari. The myth that there was only a fight when RBR and Verstappen finally justified their massive budget and ownership of 20% of the field is just that, a myth. Primarily propagated by people who dislike Hamilton and/or have a boner for Verstappen.

The idea that Hamilton could just cruise around until last year and never had to fight or struggle is also a myth. He's had years with none-Championship cars (during which he won at least one race every year) and has had three WDCs as team mates. All of whom he beat. He's beaten Vettel, when both were in similar cars, and it's hard to say that he wasn't at least competitive with Verstappen last year, despite his age and long COVID.

These arguments have played out hundreds of times on this website. All equally pointlessly and to the detriment of the community and atmosphere.

So what's left? That Hamilton is struggling this season. Well, he's not leading the WDC so that's demonstrably true. But to say that Russell's performing far better because he's leading the races 6-1 and ignore the context? It's hard to imagine that this is what you'd want put forward as an example of this website's best analysis.

But perhaps it is. In which case, we've missed an opportunity! Verstappen is only leading Perez 4-3 and we've reams of evidence that Perez is a number 2 driver in the mould of Barichello. How bad must Verstappen be?
Perhaps I should go to the Red Bull thread and spend every day posting this 'valid argument' to enhance the discussion over there? I could mention the 'valid' point that Verstappen clearly refuses to have a competitive driver in the other seat. The 'valid' observation that Red Bull own half-the field and still couldn't produce a competitive car and driver until the FIA executed one of the most obvious fixes in sporting history. Etc, etc. If posting that sort of rubbish would be frowned upon (and rightly so) then why is the crap polluting the last few pages allowed?

Mod note: calm down with the exaggeration (it reduces the validity of your valid argument)

[SiLo]

I'm interested that such repetitive rabble rousing is being deemed as 'valid'.

Hamilton had Championship battles during the Hybrid era, with Ferrari. The myth that there was only a fight when RBR and Verstappen finally justified their massive budget and ownership of 20% of the field is just that, a myth. Primarily propagated by people who dislike Hamilton and/or have a boner for Verstappen.

The idea that Hamilton could just cruise around until last year and never had to fight or struggle is also a myth. He's had years with none-Championship cars (during which he won at least one race every year) and has had three WDCs as team mates. All of whom he beat. He's beaten Vettel, when both were in similar cars, and it's hard to say that he wasn't at least competitive with Verstappen last year, despite his age and long COVID.

These arguments have played out hundreds of times on this website. All equally pointlessly and to the detriment of the community and atmosphere.

So what's left? That Hamilton is struggling this season. Well, he's not leading the WDC so that's demonstrably true. But to say that Russell's performing far better because he's leading the races 6-1 and ignore the context? It's hard to imagine that this is what you'd want put forward as an example of this website's best analysis.

But perhaps it is. In which case, we've missed an opportunity! Verstappen is only leading Perez 4-3 and we've reams of evidence that Perez is a number 2 driver in the mould of Barichello. How bad must Verstappen be?
Perhaps I should go to the Red Bull thread and spend every day posting this 'valid argument' to enhance the discussion over there? I could mention the 'valid' point that Verstappen clearly refuses to have a competitive driver in the other seat. The 'valid' observation that Red Bull own half-the field and still couldn't produce a competitive car and driver until the FIA executed one of the most obvious fixes in sporting history. Etc, etc. If posting that sort of rubbish would be frowned upon (and rightly so) then why is the crap polluting the last few pages allowed?

Mod note: calm down with the exaggeration (it reduces the validity of your valid argument)

I think it's perfectly valid to be annoyed at these dumb arguments. It's one of the reasons we have lost users recently. I think Incognito makes a very good post that highlights some issues with these discussions, they just effectively go nowhere and perpetuate topics that are simply not true.

Anyway, changing topic so we can discuss some team stuff, I just saw the Russell overtake on Norries, looks fairly standard, and a good strategy call by Mercedes to get him ahead. Sadly with Lewis getting rammed by Ocon, he never got the opportunity to progress properly on the inters.

[Hammerfist]

I'm interested that such repetitive rabble rousing is being deemed as 'valid'.

Hamilton had Championship battles during the Hybrid era, with Ferrari. The myth that there was only a fight when RBR and Verstappen finally justified their massive budget and ownership of 20% of the field is just that, a myth. Primarily propagated by people who dislike Hamilton and/or have a boner for Verstappen.

The idea that Hamilton could just cruise around until last year and never had to fight or struggle is also a myth. He's had years with none-Championship cars (during which he won at least one race every year) and has had three WDCs as team mates. All of whom he beat. He's beaten Vettel, when both were in similar cars, and it's hard to say that he wasn't at least competitive with Verstappen last year, despite his age and long COVID.

These arguments have played out hundreds of times on this website. All equally pointlessly and to the detriment of the community and atmosphere.

So what's left? That Hamilton is struggling this season. Well, he's not leading the WDC so that's demonstrably true. But to say that Russell's performing far better because he's leading the races 6-1 and ignore the context? It's hard to imagine that this is what you'd want put forward as an example of this website's best analysis.

But perhaps it is. In which case, we've missed an opportunity! Verstappen is only leading Perez 4-3 and we've reams of evidence that Perez is a number 2 driver in the mould of Barichello. How bad must Verstappen be?
Perhaps I should go to the Red Bull thread and spend every day posting this 'valid argument' to enhance the discussion over there? I could mention the 'valid' point that Verstappen clearly refuses to have a competitive driver in the other seat. The 'valid' observation that Red Bull own half-the field and still couldn't produce a competitive car and driver until the FIA executed one of the most obvious fixes in sporting history. Etc, etc. If posting that sort of rubbish would be frowned upon (and rightly so) then why is the crap polluting the last few pages allowed?

Very well said. Agree 100 percent.

[Gillian]

I'm interested that such repetitive rabble rousing is being deemed as 'valid'.

Hamilton had Championship battles during the Hybrid era, with Ferrari. The myth that there was only a fight when RBR and Verstappen finally justified their massive budget and ownership of 20% of the field is just that, a myth. Primarily propagated by people who dislike Hamilton and/or have a boner for Verstappen.

The idea that Hamilton could just cruise around until last year and never had to fight or struggle is also a myth. He's had years with none-Championship cars (during which he won at least one race every year) and has had three WDCs as team mates. All of whom he beat. He's beaten Vettel, when both were in similar cars, and it's hard to say that he wasn't at least competitive with Verstappen last year, despite his age and long COVID.

These arguments have played out hundreds of times on this website. All equally pointlessly and to the detriment of the community and atmosphere.

So what's left? That Hamilton is struggling this season. Well, he's not leading the WDC so that's demonstrably true. But to say that Russell's performing far better because he's leading the races 6-1 and ignore the context? It's hard to imagine that this is what you'd want put forward as an example of this website's best analysis.

But perhaps it is. In which case, we've missed an opportunity! Verstappen is only leading Perez 4-3 and we've reams of evidence that Perez is a number 2 driver in the mould of Barichello. How bad must Verstappen be?
Perhaps I should go to the Red Bull thread and spend every day posting this 'valid argument' to enhance the discussion over there? I could mention the 'valid' point that Verstappen clearly refuses to have a competitive driver in the other seat. The 'valid' observation that Red Bull own half-the field and still couldn't produce a competitive car and driver until the FIA executed one of the most obvious fixes in sporting history. Etc, etc. If posting that sort of rubbish would be frowned upon (and rightly so) then why is the crap polluting the last few pages allowed?

No worries, that opportunity is not missed. There are already enough people doing that right now.

[wogx]

Great sportsmanship by Lewis!

[PlatinumZealot]

Learning from Alonso again?

[napoleon1981]

If it is about the suspension, it would explain overall good performance of the Ferrari customer teams, since they buy the parts.

Also suspension has been Mercedes’ least strong point of the car since the start. They had a fast car in 2012 but lost it in tyre life. Also during the hybrid area we have seen them struggling on tracks like Monaco and Singapore multiple times, with bad grip and keeping the temps in the operating window. Their rear axle always looked a bit limited on traction, compared to Ferrari and Redbull.

I have to disagree about Mercedes not being at the top suspension-wise. It is true for pre-2012, but most of the 2014-2020 success was due to their ability to set the car aero platform, thanks to their suspension system. For the first few years engine was also a big contributor, but that advantage diminished over time, while the superiority in the stability of the aerodynamics remained. Not to mention the big gains obtained when they were able to lower the cars on straights to gain more top speed last year. And all this has a lot to do with suspension.

Side note about Ferrari-powered teams (not relevant for the thread): you can have the same parts, but how you set them and run them has a lot of importance too.

I also believe a big part of the Mercedes success was due to suspension. The new rules required a new suspension design, rendering the old obsolete. I think this part of the new regulations has hurt Mercedes more then others.

[abcdefgh]

https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/comme ... e6ly2R.jpg

Great sportsmanship by Lewis!

It seems you forgot to mention it is not Lewis' voice we hear on the clip. Also Esteban could fight for position. Fortunately he was not pushed off the track, or into the wall while overtaking.

[wogx]

Yup, Lewis was driving his car, he coud control that whole situation... It was a wet Monaco race, an Alpine is surely a weaker car than a Merc this season. Nonetheless, at the end of this race we didn't saw Hamilton on Alonso's tail, we saw that Ocon was intentionally blocked to ruin his race.

Why do we need stewards if drivers can dispense their own justice as they see fit?

Quite funny - Ocon lost position to Bottas, who is much closer to Mercedes drivers in standings.

[abcdefgh]

And yet you blame HAM for OCO poor result. ALO drive was the main reason. He could drive faster all the time. Some will say he was saving his tires. Perhaps. And perhaps HAM worn his trying to pass ALO. As the result could not drive faster. And even if he drove slowly, what rule did he break?

Even more. If ALO did not block the pack he potentially could benefit from the mistake of the driver in front, i.e. when leaving track on first corner. It did not happen but it could. So he could be higher and score more points and of course help his team mate. But no, better to blame HAM. Some fans...

[cplchanb]

If it is about the suspension, it would explain overall good performance of the Ferrari customer teams, since they buy the parts.

Also suspension has been Mercedes’ least strong point of the car since the start. They had a fast car in 2012 but lost it in tyre life. Also during the hybrid area we have seen them struggling on tracks like Monaco and Singapore multiple times, with bad grip and keeping the temps in the operating window. Their rear axle always looked a bit limited on traction, compared to Ferrari and Redbull.

I have to disagree about Mercedes not being at the top suspension-wise. It is true for pre-2012, but most of the 2014-2020 success was due to their ability to set the car aero platform, thanks to their suspension system. For the first few years engine was also a big contributor, but that advantage diminished over time, while the superiority in the stability of the aerodynamics remained. Not to mention the big gains obtained when they were able to lower the cars on straights to gain more top speed last year. And all this has a lot to do with suspension.

Side note about Ferrari-powered teams (not relevant for the thread): you can have the same parts, but how you set them and run them has a lot of importance too.

I also believe a big part of the Mercedes success was due to suspension. The new rules required a new suspension design, rendering the old obsolete. I think this part of the new regulations has hurt Mercedes more then others.

There definitely is validity to your comment. Merc was the master of the hydraulic suspension as we saw to strong effect in the second half of last year. Now that it's all spring, they essentially have to start from square one on their concepts

[matteosc]

I have to disagree about Mercedes not being at the top suspension-wise. It is true for pre-2012, but most of the 2014-2020 success was due to their ability to set the car aero platform, thanks to their suspension system. For the first few years engine was also a big contributor, but that advantage diminished over time, while the superiority in the stability of the aerodynamics remained. Not to mention the big gains obtained when they were able to lower the cars on straights to gain more top speed last year. And all this has a lot to do with suspension.

Side note about Ferrari-powered teams (not relevant for the thread): you can have the same parts, but how you set them and run them has a lot of importance too.

I also believe a big part of the Mercedes success was due to suspension. The new rules required a new suspension design, rendering the old obsolete. I think this part of the new regulations has hurt Mercedes more then others.

There definitely is validity to your comment. Merc was the master of the hydraulic suspension as we saw to strong effect in the second half of last year. Now that it's all spring, they essentially have to start from square one on their concepts

Yes, I think that it is true. They are the ones that lost the most from suspension simplification.