Just because someone supports a team does not mean they must blindly follow the 'party line' and they can do no wrong. Anything questionable should be questioned (within reason).SiLo wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 12:14I find it funny that fans must argue about the drivers from a team they support. Heck even if you support a driver, you can just say "I think George is driving really well right now" without having to compare to Lewis in any way. Anyone with eyes can see that there have been some extenuating circumstances during races so far that have helped widen the points gap.
Mod note: calm down with the exaggeration (it reduces the validity of your valid argument)Incognito wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 12:41I'm interested that such repetitive rabble rousing is being deemed as 'valid'.
Hamilton had Championship battles during the Hybrid era, with Ferrari. The myth that there was only a fight when RBR and Verstappen finally justified their massive budget and ownership of 20% of the field is just that, a myth. Primarily propagated by people who dislike Hamilton and/or have a boner for Verstappen.
The idea that Hamilton could just cruise around until last year and never had to fight or struggle is also a myth. He's had years with none-Championship cars (during which he won at least one race every year) and has had three WDCs as team mates. All of whom he beat. He's beaten Vettel, when both were in similar cars, and it's hard to say that he wasn't at least competitive with Verstappen last year, despite his age and long COVID.
These arguments have played out hundreds of times on this website. All equally pointlessly and to the detriment of the community and atmosphere.
So what's left? That Hamilton is struggling this season. Well, he's not leading the WDC so that's demonstrably true. But to say that Russell's performing far better because he's leading the races 6-1 and ignore the context? It's hard to imagine that this is what you'd want put forward as an example of this website's best analysis.
But perhaps it is. In which case, we've missed an opportunity! Verstappen is only leading Perez 4-3 and we've reams of evidence that Perez is a number 2 driver in the mould of Barichello. How bad must Verstappen be?
Perhaps I should go to the Red Bull thread and spend every day posting this 'valid argument' to enhance the discussion over there? I could mention the 'valid' point that Verstappen clearly refuses to have a competitive driver in the other seat. The 'valid' observation that Red Bull own half-the field and still couldn't produce a competitive car and driver until the FIA executed one of the most obvious fixes in sporting history. Etc, etc. If posting that sort of rubbish would be frowned upon (and rightly so) then why is the crap polluting the last few pages allowed?
I think it's perfectly valid to be annoyed at these dumb arguments. It's one of the reasons we have lost users recently. I think Incognito makes a very good post that highlights some issues with these discussions, they just effectively go nowhere and perpetuate topics that are simply not true.Stu wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 14:02Mod note: calm down with the exaggeration (it reduces the validity of your valid argument)Incognito wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 12:41I'm interested that such repetitive rabble rousing is being deemed as 'valid'.
Hamilton had Championship battles during the Hybrid era, with Ferrari. The myth that there was only a fight when RBR and Verstappen finally justified their massive budget and ownership of 20% of the field is just that, a myth. Primarily propagated by people who dislike Hamilton and/or have a boner for Verstappen.
The idea that Hamilton could just cruise around until last year and never had to fight or struggle is also a myth. He's had years with none-Championship cars (during which he won at least one race every year) and has had three WDCs as team mates. All of whom he beat. He's beaten Vettel, when both were in similar cars, and it's hard to say that he wasn't at least competitive with Verstappen last year, despite his age and long COVID.
These arguments have played out hundreds of times on this website. All equally pointlessly and to the detriment of the community and atmosphere.
So what's left? That Hamilton is struggling this season. Well, he's not leading the WDC so that's demonstrably true. But to say that Russell's performing far better because he's leading the races 6-1 and ignore the context? It's hard to imagine that this is what you'd want put forward as an example of this website's best analysis.
But perhaps it is. In which case, we've missed an opportunity! Verstappen is only leading Perez 4-3 and we've reams of evidence that Perez is a number 2 driver in the mould of Barichello. How bad must Verstappen be?
Perhaps I should go to the Red Bull thread and spend every day posting this 'valid argument' to enhance the discussion over there? I could mention the 'valid' point that Verstappen clearly refuses to have a competitive driver in the other seat. The 'valid' observation that Red Bull own half-the field and still couldn't produce a competitive car and driver until the FIA executed one of the most obvious fixes in sporting history. Etc, etc. If posting that sort of rubbish would be frowned upon (and rightly so) then why is the crap polluting the last few pages allowed?
Incognito wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 12:41I'm interested that such repetitive rabble rousing is being deemed as 'valid'.
Hamilton had Championship battles during the Hybrid era, with Ferrari. The myth that there was only a fight when RBR and Verstappen finally justified their massive budget and ownership of 20% of the field is just that, a myth. Primarily propagated by people who dislike Hamilton and/or have a boner for Verstappen.
The idea that Hamilton could just cruise around until last year and never had to fight or struggle is also a myth. He's had years with none-Championship cars (during which he won at least one race every year) and has had three WDCs as team mates. All of whom he beat. He's beaten Vettel, when both were in similar cars, and it's hard to say that he wasn't at least competitive with Verstappen last year, despite his age and long COVID.
These arguments have played out hundreds of times on this website. All equally pointlessly and to the detriment of the community and atmosphere.
So what's left? That Hamilton is struggling this season. Well, he's not leading the WDC so that's demonstrably true. But to say that Russell's performing far better because he's leading the races 6-1 and ignore the context? It's hard to imagine that this is what you'd want put forward as an example of this website's best analysis.
But perhaps it is. In which case, we've missed an opportunity! Verstappen is only leading Perez 4-3 and we've reams of evidence that Perez is a number 2 driver in the mould of Barichello. How bad must Verstappen be?
Perhaps I should go to the Red Bull thread and spend every day posting this 'valid argument' to enhance the discussion over there? I could mention the 'valid' point that Verstappen clearly refuses to have a competitive driver in the other seat. The 'valid' observation that Red Bull own half-the field and still couldn't produce a competitive car and driver until the FIA executed one of the most obvious fixes in sporting history. Etc, etc. If posting that sort of rubbish would be frowned upon (and rightly so) then why is the crap polluting the last few pages allowed?
No worries, that opportunity is not missed. There are already enough people doing that right now.Incognito wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 12:41I'm interested that such repetitive rabble rousing is being deemed as 'valid'.
Hamilton had Championship battles during the Hybrid era, with Ferrari. The myth that there was only a fight when RBR and Verstappen finally justified their massive budget and ownership of 20% of the field is just that, a myth. Primarily propagated by people who dislike Hamilton and/or have a boner for Verstappen.
The idea that Hamilton could just cruise around until last year and never had to fight or struggle is also a myth. He's had years with none-Championship cars (during which he won at least one race every year) and has had three WDCs as team mates. All of whom he beat. He's beaten Vettel, when both were in similar cars, and it's hard to say that he wasn't at least competitive with Verstappen last year, despite his age and long COVID.
These arguments have played out hundreds of times on this website. All equally pointlessly and to the detriment of the community and atmosphere.
So what's left? That Hamilton is struggling this season. Well, he's not leading the WDC so that's demonstrably true. But to say that Russell's performing far better because he's leading the races 6-1 and ignore the context? It's hard to imagine that this is what you'd want put forward as an example of this website's best analysis.
But perhaps it is. In which case, we've missed an opportunity! Verstappen is only leading Perez 4-3 and we've reams of evidence that Perez is a number 2 driver in the mould of Barichello. How bad must Verstappen be?
Perhaps I should go to the Red Bull thread and spend every day posting this 'valid argument' to enhance the discussion over there? I could mention the 'valid' point that Verstappen clearly refuses to have a competitive driver in the other seat. The 'valid' observation that Red Bull own half-the field and still couldn't produce a competitive car and driver until the FIA executed one of the most obvious fixes in sporting history. Etc, etc. If posting that sort of rubbish would be frowned upon (and rightly so) then why is the crap polluting the last few pages allowed?
I also believe a big part of the Mercedes success was due to suspension. The new rules required a new suspension design, rendering the old obsolete. I think this part of the new regulations has hurt Mercedes more then others.matteosc wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 18:50I have to disagree about Mercedes not being at the top suspension-wise. It is true for pre-2012, but most of the 2014-2020 success was due to their ability to set the car aero platform, thanks to their suspension system. For the first few years engine was also a big contributor, but that advantage diminished over time, while the superiority in the stability of the aerodynamics remained. Not to mention the big gains obtained when they were able to lower the cars on straights to gain more top speed last year. And all this has a lot to do with suspension.NL_Fer wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 17:53If it is about the suspension, it would explain overall good performance of the Ferrari customer teams, since they buy the parts.
Also suspension has been Mercedes’ least strong point of the car since the start. They had a fast car in 2012 but lost it in tyre life. Also during the hybrid area we have seen them struggling on tracks like Monaco and Singapore multiple times, with bad grip and keeping the temps in the operating window. Their rear axle always looked a bit limited on traction, compared to Ferrari and Redbull.
Side note about Ferrari-powered teams (not relevant for the thread): you can have the same parts, but how you set them and run them has a lot of importance too.
It seems you forgot to mention it is not Lewis' voice we hear on the clip. Also Esteban could fight for position. Fortunately he was not pushed off the track, or into the wall while overtaking.wogx wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 17:43
https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/comme ... e6ly2R.jpg
Great sportsmanship by Lewis!
There definitely is validity to your comment. Merc was the master of the hydraulic suspension as we saw to strong effect in the second half of last year. Now that it's all spring, they essentially have to start from square one on their conceptsnapoleon1981 wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 18:56I also believe a big part of the Mercedes success was due to suspension. The new rules required a new suspension design, rendering the old obsolete. I think this part of the new regulations has hurt Mercedes more then others.matteosc wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 18:50I have to disagree about Mercedes not being at the top suspension-wise. It is true for pre-2012, but most of the 2014-2020 success was due to their ability to set the car aero platform, thanks to their suspension system. For the first few years engine was also a big contributor, but that advantage diminished over time, while the superiority in the stability of the aerodynamics remained. Not to mention the big gains obtained when they were able to lower the cars on straights to gain more top speed last year. And all this has a lot to do with suspension.NL_Fer wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 17:53If it is about the suspension, it would explain overall good performance of the Ferrari customer teams, since they buy the parts.
Also suspension has been Mercedes’ least strong point of the car since the start. They had a fast car in 2012 but lost it in tyre life. Also during the hybrid area we have seen them struggling on tracks like Monaco and Singapore multiple times, with bad grip and keeping the temps in the operating window. Their rear axle always looked a bit limited on traction, compared to Ferrari and Redbull.
Side note about Ferrari-powered teams (not relevant for the thread): you can have the same parts, but how you set them and run them has a lot of importance too.
Yes, I think that it is true. They are the ones that lost the most from suspension simplification.cplchanb wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 19:49There definitely is validity to your comment. Merc was the master of the hydraulic suspension as we saw to strong effect in the second half of last year. Now that it's all spring, they essentially have to start from square one on their conceptsnapoleon1981 wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 18:56I also believe a big part of the Mercedes success was due to suspension. The new rules required a new suspension design, rendering the old obsolete. I think this part of the new regulations has hurt Mercedes more then others.matteosc wrote: ↑31 May 2022, 18:50
I have to disagree about Mercedes not being at the top suspension-wise. It is true for pre-2012, but most of the 2014-2020 success was due to their ability to set the car aero platform, thanks to their suspension system. For the first few years engine was also a big contributor, but that advantage diminished over time, while the superiority in the stability of the aerodynamics remained. Not to mention the big gains obtained when they were able to lower the cars on straights to gain more top speed last year. And all this has a lot to do with suspension.
Side note about Ferrari-powered teams (not relevant for the thread): you can have the same parts, but how you set them and run them has a lot of importance too.