2022 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 10 - 12

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nico5
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Joined: 12 Mar 2017, 18:55

Re: 2022 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 10 - 12

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chrisc90 wrote:
11 Jun 2022, 22:56
Wouter wrote:
11 Jun 2022, 22:52
chrisc90 wrote:
11 Jun 2022, 22:47
Is there any speed trap data (start of straight and finish line) from qualifying?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FU_IRaoWYAA ... name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FU_IQ-pXwAA ... name=large
Legend. Thankyou.

Out of interest, Where do you grab those from? Never seen them on the FIA docs site.
https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula- ... nformation
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... ds_v01.pdf
You do, maximum speeds are on the event&timing info page for every weekend, to which there's a link to on the F1 page on the FIA website. If you go in the archive section in the same homepage, you find the same for every (well, most, it's a bit messy) weekend since 2013.

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codetower
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Joined: 15 Sep 2020, 16:47

Re: 2022 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 10 - 12

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Wouter wrote:
11 Jun 2022, 22:52
chrisc90 wrote:
11 Jun 2022, 22:47
Is there any speed trap data (start of straight and finish line) from qualifying?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FU_IRaoWYAA ... name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FU_IQ-pXwAA ... name=large
Thank you for these! I couldn’t find these numbers.

This looks like it includes tows also. In the final qualifying lap of Q3, I saw Checo hit a top speed at the finish line of about 336kph, Charles was at max 334kph. Looked like both without a tow. Much closer than I anticipated.

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chrisc90
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Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2022 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 10 - 12

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nico5 wrote:
11 Jun 2022, 23:21
chrisc90 wrote:
11 Jun 2022, 22:56
Legend. Thankyou.

Out of interest, Where do you grab those from? Never seen them on the FIA docs site.
https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula- ... nformation
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... ds_v01.pdf
You do, maximum speeds are on the event&timing info page for every weekend, to which there's a link to on the F1 page on the FIA website. If you go in the archive section in the same homepage, you find the same for every (well, most, it's a bit messy) weekend since 2013.
Thanks so much! I was always looking in the documents section, which doesnt have any timing stuff. Appreciate that! Bookmarked!
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

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nico5
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Joined: 12 Mar 2017, 18:55

Re: 2022 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 10 - 12

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dialtone wrote:
11 Jun 2022, 20:08
https://i.imgur.com/EGYLvUO.jpeg

Here's the telemetry for quali from PER and LEC, neither had tow so this is true value of the car with DRS.

* The speed difference at the end of the straight to finish line is a menacing 2kmh.
I think Leclerc opened the DRS later which accounts for the speed gap but the rate of the acceleration is very similar if you shift his trace back to the actual DRS activation. Perhaps the 2kph is true anyways but the cars where dead equal on the main straight all through quali.
For reference this is Q2 first lap Per v Sai, no tow whatsoever and very similar exit out of 16:
Image
3 kph at FL is easily down to deployment strategy, the actual top speed delta is 1kph which is nothing. We really might get a slipstream fest tomorrow, let's hope it's four-way and not the usual Max v Charles, as fun as it is.

johnny comelately
johnny comelately
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Re: 2022 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 10 - 12

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Stunningly razor sharp lap from Charles, congratulations.
Some trackside cameras are showing the speed very well

f1316
f1316
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Re: 2022 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 10 - 12

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siskue2005 wrote:
10 Jun 2022, 23:46
f1316 wrote:
10 Jun 2022, 23:43

Active suspension seems a batsh.t solution imho (and probably one Mercedes think would suit them, hence continually mentioning it) and I'm sure there are other, smaller things that can be done to alleviate (more similar in size/scope to adding the stays) than sweeping changes. Perhaps something along the lines of loosening the restrictions around skirts (reducing the need to run the cars so low) or introducing some kind changes to the plank to create a higher min ride height etc.
They can have standard active suspension like Ross brawn proposed few years ago
It will cheaper and even improve overtaking
https://www.racefans.net/2018/05/30/ac ... t-in-2021/

https://f1i.com/news/264944-brawn-activ ... aking.html
If the suspension was also spec - in addition to all the existing spec cars and the fairly prescriptive regulations we now have - then you’re getting really close to a spec series. You can solve this issue much more simply by creating a way for the cars not to be allowed/or need to run so low to the ground (eg tweaking the rules around the plank or allowing some additional form of skirts).

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Schuttelberg
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Re: 2022 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 10 - 12

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Charlie is just a beast!

Is it just me or does anyone else here cannot bare to listen to Sainz?
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"

f1316
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Re: 2022 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 10 - 12

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I’ll preface this by saying I’m in no way a detractor of Lewis’ and think he’s been an incredible driver, the best of his generation (with the possible exception of Fernando) and maximised his car throughout his career.

He also doesn’t handle having a poor car very well imho. His radio messages whenever something goes wrong are always fairly defeatist and sometimes it doesn’t seem like he grasps that most of the other drivers on the grid have had to deal with these kinds of issues their entire career. Don’t get me wrong, he’s been shrewd in his career moves - not dissimilar to Fangio - and part of being successful is being in the right car at the right time, but I think Hamilton isn’t used to and doesn’t cope well with uncompetitive machinery.

We didn’t get Ferrari team radio in 2005 but I wonder what Michael sounded like when he was faced with a similar situation - totally dominant for so long and then in an uncompetitive car. My suspicion is that Michael was much more phlegmatic. I guess one of the differences is that Rubens was nowhere in 2005 - whereas Michael had these flashes of competitiveness - whereas George is putting Lewis under a lot of pressure.

Still, I think Lewis isn’t handling this season especially well and I hope to see him turn his attitude around while the car is still uncompetitive (it’s easy to be magnanimous when you’re winning).

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2022 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 10 - 12

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He does complain every now and then but not any more than the average dricer and he's never in a fit of rage on the radio.

I dunno I think for a 37 year old who is used to fighting at the front this aint half bad. He doesn't like the car and is working hard running experiments to make it into a winner.
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214270
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Re: 2022 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 10 - 12

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Not sure at all how you make the comparison even. One is running higher and has less bouncing; one is lower & is bouncing like a kangaroo. The two cars are quite different & it seems like discomfort-tolerance is driving setup.

It’s not like VER for instance, who’s in the thick of a championship battle, genuinely gunning for pole and gets beaten; tow-adjusted that’s something like 3 tenths to PER. That’s a comp, like contenders LEC v SAI where there’s zero mystery.
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tuj
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Re: 2022 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 10 - 12

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f1316 wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 01:57
t I think Hamilton isn’t used to and doesn’t cope well with uncompetitive machinery.
This is typical downplay, makes you wonder what drives it? I've heard plenty of people in the paddock and pundits say the same thing, that he can't drive an uncompetitive car. Quite frankly top drivers don't usually end up in second-rate cars in the last 20-years, the exceptions I can think of are Vettel and VER and that's just how the Red Bull pipeline works. Was Leclerc in 2018 brilliant? Alonso in the Minardi? Max drove the heck out of the STR in 2015 but he was still 12th in WDC and best finish was 4th.

If you distill the question to making the most of what you have, I'd say every year of his (Hamilton) career bar 2011 and 2016 he's achieved results near the potential of the machinery.

It's so strange...most of drivers in the paddock have had top equipment there entire driving careers; usually F1 is the exception. People like Sainz, VER, Latifi, none of them struggled for kart tires. Ham's dad used to buy used engines from Jenson Button's dad, the ones that he didn't consider good enough for Jenson. M.Schu couldn't afford new kart tires a lot of times, so he ran some of his races on take-offs from prior heats discarded by competitors.

A lot of people talk about Senna/Toleman or M.Schu/Jordan but I think general level of talent in the paddock was not that consistent at those times, nor was the advantage of the top teams so assured in consistency, such that someone could drive through the field. We certainly haven't seen that in a while...hmm.

There are currently only two drivers on the grid who have won a race from falling to last place at some point. IIRC that has only happened 7-times in F1 ever. And given that Hamilton's win came on a sprint race weekend with a subsequent grid penalty in the feature race, technically he had to overtake more cars than any of those others.

It's funny how many times this trope 'he can't drive a bad car' comes out. It was all the rage in 2011. There's also been 'he's too flashy'. :roll: And none of this is technical, at all.

In terms of actual differences between RUS and HAM pushing the machinery, it's not really clear. There were times in Spain when HAM was flying. There's been times when he looked nowhere. The same has been true for RUS but generally the other way round. I don't think anyone is disputing that right now George is doing a better job driving the Mercedes.

However concluding that HAM can't drive 'bad' cars after 7 races (including one podium and only one finish outside points) seems to be something only he is subject to. I don't recall anyone honestly saying M.Schu had lost it when ROS was equaling him and I don't hear anyone saying that about Alonso with OCO matching him either.

saviour stivala
saviour stivala
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Re: 2022 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 10 - 12

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The two examples drivers mentioned at end of post being matched or bettered by their team mates was as a result of they either were past their best or the car not suiting them as it did their team mates.

Fulcrum
Fulcrum
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Re: 2022 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 10 - 12

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Zynerji wrote:
11 Jun 2022, 19:24
Fulcrum wrote:
11 Jun 2022, 18:35
PlatinumZealot wrote:
11 Jun 2022, 17:29
Sigh. Sainz is always the nearly man. A front row was almost guaranteed!
He's driving with the pressure of someone fighting for a championship, yet he hasn't won a race yet.

I don't think he's worked out Leclerc is simply in a different place mentally, considering the poles and wins he's already achieved. When Sainz tries to 'match' Leclerc, he ends up over-driving the car, making mistakes, or binning it.

It would be better to dial it back a bit and focus on scoring podiums as often as possible.
Sainz is to LeClerc as Prost is to Senna

One is a bit more carefree with their attitude towards crashing.
I'd agree, except Sainz is more crash prone this year, hence my comment. He'd get better results by reverting to type (cerebral and controlled) rather than trying to 'out-Leclerc' Leclerc.

CRazyLemon
CRazyLemon
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Re: 2022 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 10 - 12

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tuj wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 06:54
f1316 wrote:
12 Jun 2022, 01:57
t I think Hamilton isn’t used to and doesn’t cope well with uncompetitive machinery.
This is typical downplay, makes you wonder what drives it? I've heard plenty of people in the paddock and pundits say the same thing, that he can't drive an uncompetitive car. Quite frankly top drivers don't usually end up in second-rate cars in the last 20-years, the exceptions I can think of are Vettel and VER and that's just how the Red Bull pipeline works. Was Leclerc in 2018 brilliant? Alonso in the Minardi? Max drove the heck out of the STR in 2015 but he was still 12th in WDC and best finish was 4th.

If you distill the question to making the most of what you have, I'd say every year of his (Hamilton) career bar 2011 and 2016 he's achieved results near the potential of the machinery.

It's so strange...most of drivers in the paddock have had top equipment there entire driving careers; usually F1 is the exception. People like Sainz, VER, Latifi, none of them struggled for kart tires. Ham's dad used to buy used engines from Jenson Button's dad, the ones that he didn't consider good enough for Jenson. M.Schu couldn't afford new kart tires a lot of times, so he ran some of his races on take-offs from prior heats discarded by competitors.

A lot of people talk about Senna/Toleman or M.Schu/Jordan but I think general level of talent in the paddock was not that consistent at those times, nor was the advantage of the top teams so assured in consistency, such that someone could drive through the field. We certainly haven't seen that in a while...hmm.

There are currently only two drivers on the grid who have won a race from falling to last place at some point. IIRC that has only happened 7-times in F1 ever. And given that Hamilton's win came on a sprint race weekend with a subsequent grid penalty in the feature race, technically he had to overtake more cars than any of those others.

It's funny how many times this trope 'he can't drive a bad car' comes out. It was all the rage in 2011. There's also been 'he's too flashy'. :roll: And none of this is technical, at all.

In terms of actual differences between RUS and HAM pushing the machinery, it's not really clear. There were times in Spain when HAM was flying. There's been times when he looked nowhere. The same has been true for RUS but generally the other way round. I don't think anyone is disputing that right now George is doing a better job driving the Mercedes.

However concluding that HAM can't drive 'bad' cars after 7 races (including one podium and only one finish outside points) seems to be something only he is subject to. I don't recall anyone honestly saying M.Schu had lost it when ROS was equaling him and I don't hear anyone saying that about Alonso with OCO matching him either.
I'm not sure the last bit is true, I think MSC was not the same on his return.some flashes here and there but it wasn't being called out the whole time, he was dropped though from Mercedes. I don't think Alonso is anything like the Alonso Ferrari had. Again flashes but I think Ferrari Alonso would give Ocon a bit of a beat down.

Finally Hamilton did have the 2009 McLaren to deal with. Raced his heart out all season. Honestly people should just give him a break, he is definitely a bit off at the moment. I'd say let's see the rest of this season and even how next season starts if he is around to judge if he's lost a step. What makes no sense is trying to say Hamilton was never any good and it is just the car, that's nonsensical to me. As a Ferrari fan I've always would have welcomed his talent into the Ferrari seat.

dialtone
dialtone
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Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

Re: 2022 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Baku, June 10 - 12

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search wrote:
11 Jun 2022, 20:46
dialtone wrote:
11 Jun 2022, 20:32
I just downloaded the telemetry and it's still that way, I'll re download again later.

Edit: if someone wants to check the onboards on f1tv, that would be easy to verify.
okay, this is what the browser version shows now. During live coverage it had used ones as well

https://i.imgur.com/XJ8tad2.png
Went on F1TV and checked, both SAI and LEC came out on new tyres in Q2. So the tyre deg observation needs to go back to race sim.