BGP1 inspired by F2001?

[Conceptual]

How can people think the BGP has more development potential than the RBR when it has been under development for over a year longer than the RBR? Especially when the RBR has yet to fit a DDD?

The longer a car is developed the harder(and more expensive) it is to gain more speed out of it. Example the monumental efforts and money McLaren spent to squeeze 0.15 sec out of the MP4/23 for Brazil last year.

The real question is if the RBR's development potential can outweigh the speed BGP already has in hand.

ESPImperium: How did you come about those number?

And Hamilton crossed the 3rd in a KERS car in Austrailia, not that it means anything about its true speed.

I base it upon the RBR's high nose philosophy. From what I read, Brawn stated that they took the high-nose out to its conclusion early on, and found that the low nose got them just as much performance, and has not been maxed out yet.

Sure, the MP4-23 in Brasil was a highly developed car, but one that had much more development than the Brawn. Remember, it was evolutionary due to static rules of 2006-2008 (minus the SECU)

Remember also, the BGP001 has won 3 of the first 4 races in LAUNCH SPEC.

Can you name the last car that has done that?

Also, I am sure that the MP4-24 was under development by Brasil 2008, so maybe they didn't bring ALL of their talent to bear on that .15s? Throwing outrageous amounts of overtime at something has diminishing returns, simply because humans require sleep.

Lets see where everyone is after their Barcelona and Monaco packages are tested in the GP.

I think the picture will be much more clear then.

[WhiteBlue]

I think that the Brawn BGP001 has a good 1.2 to 1.7 seconds of futher development to achive. I think that other cars will have simmilar development, brawn still has that initial .3 to .7 in hand.

Heres what i see for development for each team/car from Bahrain pace:

Brawn BGP001: 1.2 to 1.7 seconds
Red Bull RB5: 1.0 to 1.45 seconds (Also take the Toro Rosso STR4 as well here)
BMW Sauber F1.09: 1.0 to 1.5 seconds (With KERS, probably more without)
Toyota TF109: 0.9 to 1.4 seconds
Renault R29: 0.9 to 1.25 (With KERS, probably more without)
Williams FW31: 0.85 to 1.4 seconds
Force india VJM-02: 0.85 to 1.30 (Probably less when KERS is introduced)
Ferrari F60: 0.85 to 1.2 seconds (With KERS, probably more without)
McLaren MP4-24: 0.85 to 1.15 seconds (With KERS, probably more without)

I think the cars that have gone without KERS so far this season have a greater ammount of development scope avalable to them. To such extent i can see BMW Sauber producing a NON-KERS car for Kubica as he seems to like the non KERS cars as he is faster in them.

And so far there has been no KERS cars in the top 6 of Quali or the the first 3 over the line, as long as you exempt the freak wether conditions that were introduced during the Malaysian GP.

It would be interesting to learn the reasoning behind those figures. Without specifics they appear rather speculative or pseudo rational.

[Crabbia]

I seriously doubt there is any resemblance

i agree, the rules have changed, CoM of the car would have changed alot due to the sitch to V8s and with that the wheelbase, but i'm still intrested to see, BAR555, your photocoparisons always throw up interesting talking points...

I base it upon the RBR's high nose philosophy. From what I read, Brawn stated that they took the high-nose out to its conclusion early on, and found that the low nose got them just as much performance, and has not been maxed out yet.

How can any1 be sure that the RBR high nose has 'maxed out' or will do before the end of the season? and did brawn use the tight rear and pull rod suspension when he did these appraisals? did it not occur to you that these solutions are not in isolation, that the hi nose, low ass and pullrod suspension on the RBR could be one solution working together? Consequently i dont think BGP could have run the numbers on every possible solution.

I'm sorry conceptual but ur working on BGP PR aimed at ensuring that prospective sponsors don't think of BGP as a flash in the pan and that they can sustain the pace of development to stay at the front the whole season. im not going to make any prophecies that they can or cant, caus they will be just that, factless baseless speculative prophecies.

[ESPImperium]

I think that the Brawn BGP001 has a good 1.2 to 1.7 seconds of futher development to achive. I think that other cars will have simmilar development, brawn still has that initial .3 to .7 in hand.

Heres what i see for development for each team/car from Bahrain pace:

Brawn BGP001: 1.2 to 1.7 seconds
Red Bull RB5: 1.0 to 1.45 seconds (Also take the Toro Rosso STR4 as well here)
BMW Sauber F1.09: 1.0 to 1.5 seconds (With KERS, probably more without)
Toyota TF109: 0.9 to 1.4 seconds
Renault R29: 0.9 to 1.25 (With KERS, probably more without)
Williams FW31: 0.85 to 1.4 seconds
Force india VJM-02: 0.85 to 1.30 (Probably less when KERS is introduced)
Ferrari F60: 0.85 to 1.2 seconds (With KERS, probably more without)
McLaren MP4-24: 0.85 to 1.15 seconds (With KERS, probably more without)

I think the cars that have gone without KERS so far this season have a greater ammount of development scope avalable to them. To such extent i can see BMW Sauber producing a NON-KERS car for Kubica as he seems to like the non KERS cars as he is faster in them.

And so far there has been no KERS cars in the top 6 of Quali or the the first 3 over the line, as long as you exempt the freak wether conditions that were introduced during the Malaysian GP.

It would be interesting to learn the reasoning behind those figures. Without specifics they appear rather speculative or pseudo rational.

I will admit those critisisms in my figures, and i only take them as a rough guide for myself and no others. But i do base them on 2 major updates and at least another 2 or 3 smaller ones as well, going on how development has already gone this season and how it could go based on 08s results, that is what i am speculating.

If i get anywhere into those figures, of course ill be reasnoably happy.

[Matt Somers]

[Conceptual]

I seriously doubt there is any resemblance

i agree, the rules have changed, CoM of the car would have changed alot due to the sitch to V8s and with that the wheelbase, but i'm still intrested to see, BAR555, your photocoparisons always throw up interesting talking points...

I base it upon the RBR's high nose philosophy. From what I read, Brawn stated that they took the high-nose out to its conclusion early on, and found that the low nose got them just as much performance, and has not been maxed out yet.

How can any1 be sure that the RBR high nose has 'maxed out' or will do before the end of the season? and did brawn use the tight rear and pull rod suspension when he did these appraisals? did it not occur to you that these solutions are not in isolation, that the hi nose, low ass and pullrod suspension on the RBR could be one solution working together? Consequently i dont think BGP could have run the numbers on every possible solution.

I'm sorry conceptual but ur working on BGP PR aimed at ensuring that prospective sponsors don't think of BGP as a flash in the pan and that they can sustain the pace of development to stay at the front the whole season. im not going to make any prophecies that they can or cant, caus they will be just that, factless baseless speculative prophecies.

Funny how you end that post by bashing your own speculation at the beginning of the post.

I just said that I read that Brawn ruled out the high nose as the best solution, thus they went with the low one. I did no speculation or Brawn PR, just passed along my opinion on what the outcome. I have other opinions like Ferrari, Renault, Williams, Force India, and Torro Rosso will NOT win a race this year. Is that such a problem? If it is, I will immediately stop thinking for myself, and let you do all of my thinking for me. That is what you want, no?

[bar555]

Both cars feature a low banana-shaped nose but the tip of the nose cone of BG001 is quite wider








Periscope exhaust for both cars , BG001 of course has a more sophisticated exhaust pipe’s exit . We must not forget that the time difference between the two cars is 8 years of development .

[Richard]

Heres what i see for development for each team/car from Bahrain pace ...

So you assume KERS makes all cars go slower? If that was the case then why are teams still running with it? Sure balancing seems to be harder, but in the right hands (LH in most races, Massa at Barca)it does make a better racing car. As I recall, beating people on the track and defending position is the objective?

Your numbers infer a degree of accuracy. I guess you have taken the relative improvement in pace and extrapolated it? But IF Brawn hasn't made a single change, then how do we know how much speed they can add? Your logic can also be turned around to say that possibly they haven't changed because the cupboard is bare, nothing more to add?

The reality is that these are complex machines. The teams add bits and pieces seeking to unlock the optimum. A series of individual changes may not make much difference, but then suddenly the missing piece makes the whole thing come together.