Ferrari F1-75

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
Sansovino
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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JPBD1990 wrote:
22 Jul 2022, 14:21
Scarbs talking about the floor change impacting balance front to rear - anyone clever enough to understand how? Eg would they be looking to move the balance slightly frontward or rearward - and why? The Ferrari has seemed strong on turn in so I can’t imagine they need more downforce at the front? But I have… no idea.
I think it strengthens the outwash so rear should produce more downforce, shifting the balance slightly rearwards.

zioture
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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zioture
zioture
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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technical Updates in France
The video is in Italian but you can set the translation of the subtitles in English

Andi76
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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JPBD1990 wrote:
22 Jul 2022, 14:21
Scarbs talking about the floor change impacting balance front to rear - anyone clever enough to understand how? Eg would they be looking to move the balance slightly frontward or rearward - and why? The Ferrari has seemed strong on turn in so I can’t imagine they need more downforce at the front? But I have… no idea.
It changes the pressure distribution and the local load. This of course can move the balance. The balance thing is probably more a trade-off. Ferrari has a very good traction but the new cars, in general, are front-limited. So "strengthening" the front, if Scarbs said this, can be advantageous in different ways. In theory, they could now reduce the AoA of the frontwing, reducing drag. Also Ferrari had some problems at the front with graining (if memory serves). More load at the front can reduce graining. But i think this change indeed does not "strentgen" the front, but more load is transfered to the rear. If you look closely the outer tunnel is much lower. The inner ones are slightly higher, but that does not compensate the change of the much lower outer one. With the outer one smaller and the inner ones higher, Ferrari probably wants to work the rear floor and diffuser work harder and generate more aero-load there. Together with the change of the undercut and the coke bottle area, it really seems like they try to create more aero load at the back, not at the front. This would make it possible for them to use a rear wing with less downforce, reducing drag and gain the last 2 or 3 kphs Topspeed they need. But at the end of the day only Ferrari knows what they exactly want to achieve with this "balance-change". But the teams are now understanding this generation if cars much better and what changes are needed to get the most out of them. Its definetely a significant change, but also more of a "fine-tuning" of the cars load distribution and a trade-off with the intention of a better compromise than before, i think.
Last edited by Andi76 on 23 Jul 2022, 21:04, edited 2 times in total.

Seanspeed
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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Seanspeed wrote:
09 Jul 2022, 09:50
Aren't Red Bull running higher angle of attack nowadays, though? And yet still have higher top speeds, if only just. All while not having the deficit in cornering that they had before.
Sorry for quoting myself, but this seems like another demonstration that for as fast as the Ferrari is, the Red Bull's aero efficiency with DRS is still ahead of Ferrari.

LM10
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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Seanspeed wrote:
23 Jul 2022, 19:02
Seanspeed wrote:
09 Jul 2022, 09:50
Aren't Red Bull running higher angle of attack nowadays, though? And yet still have higher top speeds, if only just. All while not having the deficit in cornering that they had before.
Sorry for quoting myself, but this seems like another demonstration that for as fast as the Ferrari is, the Red Bull's aero efficiency with DRS is still ahead of Ferrari.
I don’t know what you mean with not having the deficit in cornering, but in Austria Ferrari had a smaller rear wing, but was still clearly faster than RedBull in corners.

Today, Ferrari had a bigger rear wing. The difference in apex speeds between both cars were as high as 10 km/h (!) at some points. Just for the sake of understanding how big that is, keep in mind that the difference in top speeds was at 7-8 km/h today, so some of the highest differences in this season, but the apex speed difference was even higher than that. That’s crazy.

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deadhead
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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LM10 wrote:
23 Jul 2022, 20:24
Seanspeed wrote:
23 Jul 2022, 19:02
Seanspeed wrote:
09 Jul 2022, 09:50
Aren't Red Bull running higher angle of attack nowadays, though? And yet still have higher top speeds, if only just. All while not having the deficit in cornering that they had before.
Sorry for quoting myself, but this seems like another demonstration that for as fast as the Ferrari is, the Red Bull's aero efficiency with DRS is still ahead of Ferrari.
I don’t know what you mean with not having the deficit in cornering, but in Austria Ferrari had a smaller rear wing, but was still clearly faster than RedBull in corners.

Today, Ferrari had a bigger rear wing. The difference in apex speeds between both cars were as high as 10 km/h (!) at some points. Just for the sake of understanding how big that is, keep in mind that the difference in top speeds was at 7-8 km/h today, so some of the highest differences in this season, but the apex speed difference was even higher than that. That’s crazy.
Yeah, I just saw the viewtopic.php?p=1076687#p1076687 and the F175 seems to be putting some crazy speeds in T10.

Is that just pure downforce?

LM10
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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deadhead wrote:
23 Jul 2022, 21:58
LM10 wrote:
23 Jul 2022, 20:24
Seanspeed wrote:
23 Jul 2022, 19:02

Sorry for quoting myself, but this seems like another demonstration that for as fast as the Ferrari is, the Red Bull's aero efficiency with DRS is still ahead of Ferrari.
I don’t know what you mean with not having the deficit in cornering, but in Austria Ferrari had a smaller rear wing, but was still clearly faster than RedBull in corners.

Today, Ferrari had a bigger rear wing. The difference in apex speeds between both cars were as high as 10 km/h (!) at some points. Just for the sake of understanding how big that is, keep in mind that the difference in top speeds was at 7-8 km/h today, so some of the highest differences in this season, but the apex speed difference was even higher than that. That’s crazy.
Yeah, I just saw the viewtopic.php?p=1076687#p1076687 and the F175 seems to be putting some crazy speeds in T10.

Is that just pure downforce?
High downforce and excellent balance/stability.

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hollus
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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LM10 wrote:
23 Jul 2022, 22:23
High downforce and excellent balance/stability.
Do you mean "the car is fast"?
Remember to place pure pace and pace comparisons in the team threads, not in the car threads. Thanks.
Rivals, not enemies.

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deadhead
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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Sorry that was my bad for asking the question here

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nico5
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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LM10 wrote:
23 Jul 2022, 20:24
Seanspeed wrote:
23 Jul 2022, 19:02
Seanspeed wrote:
09 Jul 2022, 09:50
Aren't Red Bull running higher angle of attack nowadays, though? And yet still have higher top speeds, if only just. All while not having the deficit in cornering that they had before.
Sorry for quoting myself, but this seems like another demonstration that for as fast as the Ferrari is, the Red Bull's aero efficiency with DRS is still ahead of Ferrari.
I don’t know what you mean with not having the deficit in cornering, but in Austria Ferrari had a smaller rear wing, but was still clearly faster than RedBull in corners.

Today, Ferrari had a bigger rear wing. The difference in apex speeds between both cars were as high as 10 km/h (!) at some points. Just for the sake of understanding how big that is, keep in mind that the difference in top speeds was at 7-8 km/h today, so some of the highest differences in this season, but the apex speed difference was even higher than that. That’s crazy.
I think what's even more interesting for Ferrari, from Britain onwards they've been running consistently the untrimmed version of the FW (while not the case until Canada in medium df tracks) coupled with the new lower df-spec RW and despite that the balance of the car seems to have shifted slightly rearwards (dominance in high speed corners is usually a testament of that), and which is also probably part of the reason why Sainz is performing better now.
That means the changes to the floor have massively improved the performance of the car so that they're able to load the front and unload the rear at the same time without compromising the balance, if anything even shifting it back a bit. To me this is quite an achievement, especially when you look at Merc and RB struggling a bit to find the right balance, testing different spec of RWs in the same weekend or having to make daring choices to fix tyre wear issues that had showed up out of the blue with upgrades.

.poz
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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nico5 wrote:
24 Jul 2022, 11:14

That means the changes to the floor have massively improved the performance of the car so that they're able to load the front and unload the rear at the same time without compromising the balance, if anything even shifting it back a bit. To me this is quite an achievement, especially when you look at Merc and RB struggling a bit to find the right balance, testing different spec of RWs in the same weekend or having to make daring choices to fix tyre wear issues that had showed up out of the blue with upgrades.
I think they have resolved the porpoising issue and can run the car lower and/or with a softer suspension setup

AR3-GP
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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.poz wrote:
24 Jul 2022, 23:10
nico5 wrote:
24 Jul 2022, 11:14

That means the changes to the floor have massively improved the performance of the car so that they're able to load the front and unload the rear at the same time without compromising the balance, if anything even shifting it back a bit. To me this is quite an achievement, especially when you look at Merc and RB struggling a bit to find the right balance, testing different spec of RWs in the same weekend or having to make daring choices to fix tyre wear issues that had showed up out of the blue with upgrades.
I think they have resolved the porpoising issue and can run the car lower and/or with a softer suspension setup
Car looked to be porpoising into the high speed right hander at the end of the Mistral.
A lion must kill its prey.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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The car doesn't like hot races. In Austria when things cooled down the car was flying, but in France it was at the mercy of a RedBull undercut.
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dialtone
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
25 Jul 2022, 00:01
The car doesn't like hot races. In Austria when things cooled down the car was flying, but in France it was at the mercy of a RedBull undercut.
Not at all...

Oh wait, let me try your way:

Nah, that Red Bull was destroying its tires, Checo couldn't stay on track and was getting passed left and right while Verstappen was struggling so much he had to stop 8 laps earlier to avoid getting dropped, was already losing 0.3 per lap. Even on the hards Max was barely faster than Leclerc. And Checo couldn't hold it together against a Sainz with 24 laps old mediums. That RBR needs help because right now they are only saved by Ferrari mistakes.

Also this is OT for this thread.