2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

[johnny comelately]

This might ruin the day for the purists (of this thread) but it shows the antithesis of the modern efficiency drive. 3:1 AFR; where is the air?; the struggle for spark- hence 44 amp mags and why most blow ups happen

[J.A.W.]

This might ruin the day for the purists (of this thread) but it shows the antithesis of the modern efficiency drive. 3:1 AFR; where is the air?; the struggle for spark- hence 44 amp mags and why most blow ups happen

Does the burn got hot enough to use as fuel the non-O2 % particles of air?

Isn't the spark analogous to 'glow-plug' use in a CI mill, & once going hard, it burns on, chemical process-wise?

(I sure know the sonic-wave blast & eye-watering gaseous stench hits real hard too, its a real VISCERAL motorsport!).

[djos]

This might ruin the day for the purists (of this thread) but it shows the antithesis of the modern efficiency drive. 3:1 AFR; where is the air?; the struggle for spark- hence 44 amp mags and why most blow ups happen

Last time I checked, the oxygen content of nitromethane enables it to burn with much less atmospheric oxygen than conventional fuels.

So it’s not really comparable to petrol. The reason they use giant 44 amp magnetos is its very very hard to get nitromethane burning.

[Tommy Cookers]

This might ruin the day for the purists (of this thread) but it shows the antithesis of the modern efficiency drive. 3:1 AFR; where is the air?; the struggle for spark- hence 44 amp mags and why most blow ups happen

Last time I checked, the oxygen content of nitromethane enables it to burn with much less atmospheric oxygen than conventional fuels.
So it’s not really comparable to petrol. The reason they use giant 44 amp magnetos is its very very hard to get nitromethane burning.

the stoichiometric AFR is freakishly low (1.7:1) with nitromethane
ie you can burn more nitro in your cylinder of air than with any other fuel
that's why it gives such high power (about 2.3 x gasoline's) - despite nitro's very low heating value per kg

only running richer than stoichiometric will the fuel use any of its own oxygen
this saves the ICE doing the flow work to breathe in that amount of gaseous oxygen and the associated rest of the air
so gives more power
combustible hydrogen and carbon monoxide are dumped in the exhaust gas - but burn when reaching the atmosphere

you need a very high spark voltage (eg 85 kV) so a very large diameter magneto (to get enough spacing for isolation)

Brits Hawthorn and Moss used plenty nitro in 1952/53? WDC (run to F2 rules) etc to help their underpowered Brit cars
it got Hawthorn his job driving WDC Ferraris

[johnny comelately]

"where is the air?" was a rhetoric question, this was my field on one wheel drives before semi retiring.
It is a fascinating world, I know some F1 engineers have visited the show to learn launch technology.
Keep digging and then that perspective almost contradicts the current F1 engines, an amazing spectrum

[organic]

https://www.fia.com/news/world-motor-sp ... -2022-2023

THE WORLD MOTOR SPORT COUNCIL APPROVES F1 2026 POWER UNIT REGULATIONS AND UPDATED 2022-2023 TECHNICAL REGULATIONS

Well it is finally confirmed. Some announcements imminent I expect

Here is the detailed information about the 2026 power unit regulations

A power unit cost cap is also outlined in the above document

[RedNEO]

Sounds fairly reasonable although why not get rid of the turbo at this point it’s pointless and leads to turbo lag (without mguh) for no reason. Will be interesting to see how it plays out with the cost cap and new entrants.

[ENGINE TUNER]

With the mguh gone, where will the electrical energy to power the now more powerful 350kW mguk come from? So basically they will just be burning fuel to make electrical energy. An absurd development, they go from capturing wasted energy, to no longer capturing it and creating more for the sake of producing electrical energy for a shorter KERS boost.

[vorticism]

3x increase in MGUK output. No mention of ES capacity/weight. ICE output reduced approximately 1/3.

[RedNEO]

The increase in MGUK power will be welcome to mitigate lag or teams will find other clever ways to do that and save energy probably.

Do hope it will be net weight loss with less fuel but depends how much beefier the mguk and battery will have to be.

[Cs98]

Feel like these new cars will be braking A LOT with the MGU-K to regenerate enough energy to run that 350kW electrical engine. Won't need disc brakes on the rear axle.

No test bench advantage for RBPT/Porsche and AUDI. However, 10 million extra in budget for the first two years, 5 for the third.

[Bill]

with these regulation f1 is becoming a spec series fia will effectively telling engine manufacturer's how to build their pu.f1 used to be the pinnacle of motorsport now it is highly prescriptive.the likes of porsche like these regulation, despite charging high fees for their "premium "product they sell they dont have confidence that they can build a better engine than the like of Honda and Renault who are perceived as lesser and not so high tech.why will a new manufacture join f1 the batteries will be spec the engine too biofuel are not practical in the real world ,they is effectively nothing to attract anyone.The romanticism and allure of f1 that we had under Bernie is no more, team used to come and go so too where engine manufactures .you could dream take you chance succeed or mostly likely fail ,but know f1 is a cartel under legacy teams Andretti would not join, under Bernie it would has been easy.f1 is all money now .

[morefirejules08]

Feel like these new cars will be braking A LOT with the MGU-K to regenerate enough energy to run that 350kW electrical engine. Won't need disc brakes on the rear axle.

No test bench advantage for RBPT/Porsche and AUDI. However, 10 million extra in budget for the first two years, 5 for the third.

Wait, Porsche and Audi are getting an extra £25 mil to develop their PU?

[mzso]

Well it is finally confirmed. Some announcements imminent I expect

Here is the detailed information about the 2026 power unit regulations

More restricted, more prescribed, remove this, remove that. I don't think it could be more bland and pointless.
It pleases no-one.

With the mguh gone, where will the electrical energy to power the now 50% more powerful 350kW mguk come from? So basically they will just be burning fuel to make electrical energy. An absurd development, they go from capturing wasted energy, to no longer capturing it and creating more for the sake of producing electrical energy for a shorter KERS boost.

It seems like it. There's no way they can generate even the same amount with braking.
I wonder though. Is there anything stopping them from recovering energy from mechanically coupling to the turbo? (Not sure if it's even viable, with the big difference in engine/turbo rpm.)

[mzso]

Sounds fairly reasonable although why not get rid of the turbo at this point it’s pointless and leads to turbo lag (without mguh) for no reason. Will be interesting to see how it plays out with the cost cap and new entrants.

They can compensate with the K for the turbo lag.