2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Spoutnik]

i love leclerc fans tears

On a more serious note. Leclerc pace wasn't "different league". He was never on the DRS zone of Sainz until Sainz close down on Russell and was in the DRS zone of him. It wasn't, imo, like in Silverstone where Leclerc was clearly faster.
When he was 0.500 behind Russell I don't think Ferrari could tell him to get out of the way.
Then Ferrari compromised his race in order to let Leclerc run in free air : why on earth is he pitted so early with Mediums ? Made no sense like the 2nd stop of Leclerc : too early. Even if Sainz was slower on race pace than Leclerc probably we've seen an okay pace from him on the Mediums when he went long on them. So, imo Ferrari strategy/"get out of the way for Charles", cost him a near certain podium.

It is very stupid when you know what happened for Leclerc after...

From Lap 2 to Lap 13, Sainz was sitting comfortably behind Russell with a gap of 2 seconds. Never really seemed like attacking, whereas Leclerc was waiting patiently behind. It would have been harakiri if Leclerc would have forced the matter on Sainz as he would have aggressively defended to the detriment of a good team result. This is where Binotto fails as a team principal and Red Bull excels. As soon as Leclerc was released, he was a second a lap faster for the next 3 laps. At that point, a lot of damage was done, but Ferrari was stupid to not leave him longer and instead, they pulled him in to give an overcut. Once out of Sainz's clutches, Leclerc comfortably overtook Russell. It just shows, if Leclerc was ahead of Sainz after Lap 1, he would have easily cleared Russel in the first stint itself. Sainz doesn't have those killer instintcts to howl his pray and overtake like Max or Leclerc can do. I don't see any point in defending Sainz on this one.

You can analyze it in that way (the first stint) but I can also say Charles was protecting the tyres, and Sainz was just stopped to early. Maybe they should've just swapped the cars and let Sainz extend his first stint because imo thats the main reason why he's not on the podium yersteday : his first stint was too short.

I don't think Charles would've overtake Russell so easily if he was P2 after lap 1. Soft tyres were faster for at least 10 laps, that's why Hamilton spent these laps 1.5sec behind Norris. Once they start falling Sainz came back at Russell, maybe Leclerc would've been more aggressive and overtook him easily but it doesn't change anything in that case to overtake Russell 1 lap before he pits or being 0.5 sec behind him before his stop like Sainz was.

[alexx_88]

I didn't take it that personal, I moved away from Italy because my job wouldn't give me the salary I wanted. But I don't think your point is relevant. A brand like Ferrari can hire whatever they want in Italy, many people grow up dreaming to work there, and there's plenty of skilled individuals in Italy. The GDP metric, while maybe valid as far as economic composition goes and how easy/hard it would be for a whole sector of an economy to be there, doesn't apply to a single race car brand with a few thousand employees.

EDIT: Your first point about why demand increases or not: language, work law regulation and taxation are a big reason why companies don't work in italy too much, totally different from the people skill. Dublin is heavy with immigrants from all over europe because that's where US companies go to setup shop thanks to low taxes, english language and work law similar to the US. I know because I had to make these decisions for my company.

You're kind of proving my point for me here. You, who are probably highly skilled, moved away because of the lower wage. Not all of the highly skilled individuals will do that, but some will. So that decreases the talent pool. But the bigger problem is the lack of companies in the field in which young talent can develop. I own two companies in IT/motorsport, one multi-national, so I know a thing or two about attracting and developing talent.

It takes a lot of time and almost a dedicated collective effort to develop certain industries. No matter how good your talent pool is, if you don't have high-end companies using said pool and giving them bleeding edge field knowledge, progress doesn't happen. So you need to wonder objectively if there are enough companies doing bleeding edge AI & data analytics in Italy as compared to UK.

Please bear in mind that I say this as (originally) a software engineer from a country similar to Italy. We have one of the largest communities of developers in all of FANG companies (I think it's 2nd at Microsoft). However, the depth of the local talent pool, especially when it comes to advanced projects is lacking. For the reasons I outlined above: not enough companies doing bleeding edge stuff to develop the talent locally.

Anyway, I understand your points, I hope you understand mine and more importantly the fact that I wasn't trying to be condescending about Italians or Italy in general. I don't want to carry this further, so please, let's agree to disagree.

[Shal_Leg16]

On a more serious note. Leclerc pace wasn't "different league". He was never on the DRS zone of Sainz until Sainz close down on Russell and was in the DRS zone of him. It wasn't, imo, like in Silverstone where Leclerc was clearly faster.
When he was 0.500 behind Russell I don't think Ferrari could tell him to get out of the way.
Then Ferrari compromised his race in order to let Leclerc run in free air : why on earth is he pitted so early with Mediums ? Made no sense like the 2nd stop of Leclerc : too early. Even if Sainz was slower on race pace than Leclerc probably we've seen an okay pace from him on the Mediums when he went long on them. So, imo Ferrari strategy/"get out of the way for Charles", cost him a near certain podium.

It is very stupid when you know what happened for Leclerc after...

They didnt move sainz aside at all , Russel pitted and they responded with pitting Sainz. even if we assume they did it for Leclerc there is no point in doing that after wasting 10 laps and critical race time.

Regarding " leclerc being in different league " we all saw his league when in 2nd stint not only he dispatched Russell swiftly but also pulled of 6sec gap on him within no time . Thats the difference in league of a Champion materiel and a avg joe.

Idk if they wanted to move him aside or they just went for a stupid strategy again but there was nos reason to cover Russell, furthermore his exit lap was clean so Sainz would never overtake him "in the pit". If the aim was to cover Russell strategy they should start on soft like Russell, there's no reason to put medium tyres and stop at the same stage as someone on soft tyres.

Sainz second stint was also pretty good. Im not saying he was faster than Charles, I don't know, but for sure P2/P3 was possible by extending the first stint/better pit stops.
As Ferrari fans you shouldn't call your own driver average Sainz showed more this year than Perez last year or Bottas imo and he's not suffering of the comparaison with Charles.

Sainz should have done better job in his first stint being the leading car at that point. if not the overtake then least he should have tried to create a gap . im not buying that neither was possible for sainz . truth is he didn't do either and that was main reason both Max & Lewis ended up on top steps.

the thing you are focusing about calling sainz in also connects more towards Ferrari not having balls to do the swap rather then the need to respond to Russell. they show reluctance in doing it instead call one of the driver's in to avoid swap.

[Andres125sx]

shhhh .

that doesn't matter. Sainz finished 4th ...so lets assume he performed better. thats how it works here.

shhh, people shoudn´t notice Ferrari ruined Sainz race before they ruined Lecrerc race

Really ? he couldnt get rid of Russell in 1st stint , also held off Leclerc in that process which allowed guys starting from 7th & 10th on the grid to get into the fold. his performance in 1st stint defied whole purpose of starting higher on the grid .

if that was a Mercedes or RB they won't take 5 laps to think what to do, neither they had pitted sainz to avoid the swap....one simple msg - you are on different strategy and leclerc was through on Russell or least he would have pulled off enough gap to avoid what happened.

.

Did you watch the race?

Leclerc was out of drs until Sainz got stuck behind Russell

Sainz and Lecrerc were on same strategy, but Ferrari ruined Sainz race with a pitstop similar to those on softs to let Charles go, ruining Sainz advantage of starting with mediums... Then ruining it further with a 4.7 seconds pitstop

And even further with a second pitstop of 4.5 seconds too

Then they ruined Lecrerc race too with hards, but they had ruined Sainz race much faster


Probably the most embarrassing race strategically speaking, I've ever seen at any team, and we've seen some pretty embarrasing lately...

[KeiKo403]

They didnt move sainz aside at all , Russel pitted and they responded with pitting Sainz. even if we assume they did it for Leclerc there is no point in doing that after wasting 10 laps and critical race time.

Regarding " leclerc being in different league " we all saw his league when in 2nd stint not only he dispatched Russell swiftly but also pulled of 6sec gap on him within no time . Thats the difference in league of a Champion materiel and a avg joe.

Said average Joe beat him to pole in a worse car...
Leclerc is Champion material, but to cast Russell aside as an average Joe is a mistake. He's championship material just as much.

ffs ... pls dont be like Ferrari strategic team. i wanst talking about Russell.

Sorry bud, I mis-interpreted your initial post.

[Vanja #66]

Sainz and Lecrerc were on same strategy, but Ferrari ruined Sainz race with a pitstop similar to those on softs to let Charles go, ruining Sainz advantage of starting with mediums... Then ruining it further with a 4.7 seconds pitstop

And even further with a second pitstop of 4.5 seconds too

Then they ruined Lecrerc race too with hards, but they had ruined Sainz race much faster


Probably the most embarrassing race strategically speaking, I've ever seen at any team, and we've seen some pretty embarrasing lately...

Lucky for Sainz, he was so much slower than what the car could do, so he finished where he would have in any case.

[Spoutnik]

They didnt move sainz aside at all , Russel pitted and they responded with pitting Sainz. even if we assume they did it for Leclerc there is no point in doing that after wasting 10 laps and critical race time.

Regarding " leclerc being in different league " we all saw his league when in 2nd stint not only he dispatched Russell swiftly but also pulled of 6sec gap on him within no time . Thats the difference in league of a Champion materiel and a avg joe.

Idk if they wanted to move him aside or they just went for a stupid strategy again but there was nos reason to cover Russell, furthermore his exit lap was clean so Sainz would never overtake him "in the pit". If the aim was to cover Russell strategy they should start on soft like Russell, there's no reason to put medium tyres and stop at the same stage as someone on soft tyres.

Sainz second stint was also pretty good. Im not saying he was faster than Charles, I don't know, but for sure P2/P3 was possible by extending the first stint/better pit stops.
As Ferrari fans you shouldn't call your own driver average Sainz showed more this year than Perez last year or Bottas imo and he's not suffering of the comparaison with Charles.

Sainz should have done better job in his first stint being the leading car at that point. if not the overtake then least he should have tried to create a gap . im not buying that neither was possible for sainz . truth is he didn't do either and that was main reason both Max & Lewis ended up on top steps.

the thing you are focusing about calling sainz in also connects more towards Ferrari not having balls to do the swap rather then the need to respond to Russell. they show reluctance in doing it instead call one of the driver's in to avoid swap.

Sainz should have, but Leclerc too. I mean he was 2.5sec off Sainz for most of the stint. He should have been 0.5 sec behind and overtook him or asks the team to swap the cars like in Silverstone. It was not the case. So for this first stint Sainz isn't at fault for me.

[Andres125sx]

Sainz and Lecrerc were on same strategy, but Ferrari ruined Sainz race with a pitstop similar to those on softs to let Charles go, ruining Sainz advantage of starting with mediums... Then ruining it further with a 4.7 seconds pitstop

And even further with a second pitstop of 4.5 seconds too

Then they ruined Lecrerc race too with hards, but they had ruined Sainz race much faster


Probably the most embarrassing race strategically speaking, I've ever seen at any team, and we've seen some pretty embarrasing lately...

Lucky for Sainz, he was so much slower than what the car could do, so he finished where he would have in any case.

Then Lecrerc was even slower, as he couldn't get into Sainz DRS at first stint until Sainz was stuck behind Russell

[Andres125sx]

shhhh .

that doesn't matter. Sainz finished 4th ...so lets assume he performed better. thats how it works here.

shhh, people shoudn´t notice Ferrari ruined Sainz race before they ruined Lecrerc race

While Ferrari has does a lot of f*** ups, this one is Sainz's problem. He simply didn't show any intent of overtaking Russell. That's the root of all problems to begin with.

Maybe it was because Russell was on softs, and Sainz on mediums

Sainz didn't need to pass Russell on track, he only needed to do a longer stint and pass him on strategy, so taking care of the medium tires was the sensible thing to do, instead of destroy them trying to pass a car with faster tires

But then Ferrari called him to pits on next lap to Russell, ruining Sainz tire advantage and compromising his race.... Even before the 4.7 seconds pitstop, which ruined Sainz race definitely.

Just in case Sainz still had some option, second pitstop was also well over 4 seconds


But let's ignore facts and blame Sainz

[Vanja #66]

Then Lecrerc was even slower, as he couldn't get into Sainz DRS at first stint until Sainz was stuck behind Russell

Wow, there really can't be anything remote to a rational discussion with you... You've already agreed Charles is a better driver, I can't understand what you are trying to prove? Sainz couldn't keep his position on fastest available tyres against Hamilton and 2-3 second he lost in pits is what he ended up behind Russell anyway. He couldn't overtake Russell, never had the track position, so there was no chance for him to end up on podium on his own pace and merit. Pit stops themselves are not Ferrari's problem at all, they are really good with tyre change. And somehow Ferrari ruined his race again He got 2 points extra because of Ferrari messing up with Leclerc, you should be happy Sainz finished 4th.

[Spoutnik]

Then Lecrerc was even slower, as he couldn't get into Sainz DRS at first stint until Sainz was stuck behind Russell

Wow, there really can't be anything remote to a rational discussion with you... You've already agreed Charles is a better driver, I can't understand what you are trying to prove? Sainz couldn't keep his position on fastest available tyres against Hamilton and 2-3 second he lost in pits is what he ended up behind Russell anyway. He couldn't overtake Russell, never had the track position, so there was no chance for him to end up on podium on his own pace and merit. Pit stops themselves are not Ferrari's problem at all, they are really good with tyre change. And somehow Ferrari ruined his race again He got 2 points extra because of Ferrari messing up with Leclerc, you should be happy Sainz finished 4th.

He's fundamentaly not wrong.
As I already said Leclerc was 2-2.5sec behind Sainz for the first stint he came into his DRS zone when Sainz was 1.2/0.7 behind Russell. So no blistering pace from him on that first stint.
Leclerc has already been so much faster than his teamates that he overtook them few laps after the start, remember Barhain 2019. It was not the case.

Ferrari messed up the race of Sainz by covering the strategy of Russell. Idk if it was to let Leclerc in clean air or just sheer incompetence but it was so wrong when you start on harder tyres and you don't get track position for this exact reason on the first stint.

[mendis]

shhh, people shoudn´t notice Ferrari ruined Sainz race before they ruined Lecrerc race

While Ferrari has does a lot of f*** ups, this one is Sainz's problem. He simply didn't show any intent of overtaking Russell. That's the root of all problems to begin with.

Maybe it was because Russell was on softs, and Sainz on mediums

Sainz didn't need to pass Russell on track, he only needed to do a longer stint and pass him on strategy, so taking care of the medium tires was the sensible thing to do, instead of destroy them trying to pass a car with faster tires

But then Ferrari called him to pits on next lap to Russell, ruining Sainz tire advantage and compromising his race.... Even before the 4.7 seconds pitstop, which ruined Sainz race definitely.

Just in case Sainz still had some option, second pitstop was also well over 4 seconds


But let's ignore facts and blame Sainz

So you want everyone to ignore the fact that, Ferrari currently has a car that is miles ahead of Mercedes and it was Russell who needed to baby sit the tyres to get a decent stint? Besides, on a full load of fuel, the Soft is only going to be a couple of tenths faster than Medium on cars of equal performance, but that advantage could last only a handful of laps. If Sainz would have pushed Russell harder, may be his tyres would have been dead faster and then Sainz could have overtaken Russell. Those are facts that you are ignoring or unaware. I understand you are spanish and hence have such adulation for your countryman. Unlike Alonso, Sainz doesn't deserve such unwavering support, not on merit. Lastly, I am not going to compete with you on those emojis.

[Slahinki]

shhh, people shoudn´t notice Ferrari ruined Sainz race before they ruined Lecrerc race

While Ferrari has does a lot of f*** ups, this one is Sainz's problem. He simply didn't show any intent of overtaking Russell. That's the root of all problems to begin with.

Maybe it was because Russell was on softs, and Sainz on mediums

Sainz didn't need to pass Russell on track, he only needed to do a longer stint and pass him on strategy, so taking care of the medium tires was the sensible thing to do, instead of destroy them trying to pass a car with faster tires

But then Ferrari called him to pits on next lap to Russell, ruining Sainz tire advantage and compromising his race.... Even before the 4.7 seconds pitstop, which ruined Sainz race definitely.

Just in case Sainz still had some option, second pitstop was also well over 4 seconds


But let's ignore facts and blame Sainz

Such an odd race. Why box Sainz with the soft runners? If it's to move Leclerc into free air it's possible to do that on track, without completely ruining the strategy for one of your cars. And if you do it like that anyway, why also ruin the strategy of the second car too, making the original sacrifice pointless... And the slow stops, my god the slow stops.

[Xyz22]

While Ferrari has does a lot of f*** ups, this one is Sainz's problem. He simply didn't show any intent of overtaking Russell. That's the root of all problems to begin with.

Maybe it was because Russell was on softs, and Sainz on mediums

Sainz didn't need to pass Russell on track, he only needed to do a longer stint and pass him on strategy, so taking care of the medium tires was the sensible thing to do, instead of destroy them trying to pass a car with faster tires

But then Ferrari called him to pits on next lap to Russell, ruining Sainz tire advantage and compromising his race.... Even before the 4.7 seconds pitstop, which ruined Sainz race definitely.

Just in case Sainz still had some option, second pitstop was also well over 4 seconds


But let's ignore facts and blame Sainz

Such an odd race. Why box Sainz with the soft runners? If it's to move Leclerc into free air it's possible to do that on track, without completely ruining the strategy for one of your cars. And if you do it like that anyway, why also ruin the strategy of the second car too, making the original sacrifice pointless... And the slow stops, my god the slow stops.

Because they are scared to issue team orders on track. There isn't a first and a second driver like in any successful team. They can't manage them.

[pipoloko]

guys lap times are today available at
https://en.mclarenf-1.com/2022/gp/s9033 ... s/825-482/
comparison is possible to be done

we have to accept that
MB was faster than ferrari (LH lost potential P1 because DRS
MAX lost qualify P1 in q3 due an engine failure
Binotto and ferrari knew very well that!!!!!
the only pos available for the race were
P4/P5 if Perez could not cope with the track
the rest of the discussion is fans BS that dont get or read the Data
no more discussion IMO
the house rest during august !!!!