2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

[wuzak]

If they use the same size ES as now (and 4MJ maximum usage), 350kW could be deployed for 11s.

Nowhere near as much time as 120kW deployment would last (33s), let alone the deployment available with MGUH (50s+?).

[mzso]

Nope - 50% includes the MGUH.

Sure? Mercedes kept saying the engine had 50% thermal efficiency. Not the PU with H recovery.

[saviour stivala]

Yes. mercedes always said 'the engine' reached 50% TE. Or always given that impression.

[Bill]

more focus on electrification does not make sense when we have formula e and wec series.f1 should have made regulation that differentiate themself from those .keeping the current pu was better limiting areas of development for cost sake would have made sense ,these is just change for change sake.

[soco3594]

Yes, but I don't see how they should sound better? It's the same configuration, and same RPM range. Might be slightly louder due to the lack of MGUH, but I doubt they'll sound any better

Mechanical anti-lag!

[gruntguru]

Nope - 50% includes the MGUH.

Sure? Mercedes kept saying the engine had 50% thermal efficiency. Not the PU with H recovery.

50% TE is achieved in "self sustaining mode" ie the ICE + GUH + MUK and no energy flow to or from the ES.

The heat "Engine" is an ICE combining a reciprocating Otto cycle engine with a centrifugal supercharger and radial inflow exhaust turbine. Work from the turbine is used to directly drive the compressor with surplus turbine power returned to the crankshaft (electrically in this case).

[Tommy Cookers]

Nope - 50% includes the MGUH.

Sure? Mercedes kept saying the engine had 50% thermal efficiency. Not the PU with H recovery.

afaik we believe they meant 50% sustained from the PU
ie crankshaft power output combined with what power the MU-K makes from what the GU-H can generate sustainably

Wright Turbo-Compound aero engines mechanical exhaust turbine recovery added c. 10% to crankshaft power - in cruise
shown here 10 years ago

[Blackout]

Has the fuel flow rate been announced?

The F1TV video says 70-80 kg/hr.

Next step is to actually call for tenders for the block part of the engine.

Is that speculation, or is it confirmed that the bottom-end of the engine will be a spec part from Gibson or Mechachrome or somebody? If so, that would be logical given the competition is meant to be on the electrical side.

The FIA are saying something about standardised crankshaft, pistons etc but it seems a bit vague. Does that mean fully spec, or rather just open source, common design but made by the individual manufacturers?

As far as I understand, the engines will be more dimensionally prescribed, especially the lower part, while the standardisation only concerns injectors and sensors...

https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech

[johnny comelately]

Has the fuel flow rate been announced?

The F1TV video says 70-80 kg/hr.

Next step is to actually call for tenders for the block part of the engine.

Is that speculation, or is it confirmed that the bottom-end of the engine will be a spec part from Gibson or Mechachrome or somebody? If so, that would be logical given the competition is meant to be on the electrical side.

The FIA are saying something about standardised crankshaft, pistons etc but it seems a bit vague. Does that mean fully spec, or rather just open source, common design but made by the individual manufacturers?

As far as I understand, the engines will be more dimensionally prescribed, especially the lower part, while the standardisation only concerns injectors and sensors...

https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaTVnKPWAAg ... name=large

IMHO, what that is mistakenly saying is that the standardised parts are irrelevant to progress of the ICE, rubbish.
There is nothing there that cannot be addressed by the cost cap, why restrict development.
All components are related to efficiency and progress.
One hand tied behind the back for the designers.

[Tommy Cookers]

currently the 8 speed instant shift 'seamless' transmissions are a hidden helper to the electrical side
accomodating on its input side increased inertia due to the MGU-K and its drive gear ratio .... and ....
giving to the MGU-K near-constant high rpm (voltage) and near-constant low torque (current), motoring or generating
apparently this hidden help will only increase with the much bigger K machine and smaller ICE

K inertia and response might be helped with eg 2 or 3 K present-size machines rather than a single 350 kW-size machine
conceivably multiple machines (being commonly slaved to the crankshaft) could have a common CE unit

but increased electrification should enable transmission with .....
continuous variability via K(s) and the ICE being sum/difference connections to a Prius-concept planetary transmission
that wouldn't sound revvy or racy though

[.poz]

question for engineers:

AFAIK one of the most difficult thing to setup on actual PU is turbo-compressor-MGUH, because it does two different things, harvesting energy and feeding the ICE with the optimal flow of air at the optimal pressure

is complex to design and tricky to setup with software

a design with turbo and compressor not mechanically linked and with a MGUH on the turbo and a electrically powered compressor is easier to project and setup ?

[Cold Fussion]

These regulations look like they'll produce power units very similar in performance and philosophy to the old LMP1 regulations. I imagine the way the cars are driven will look more LMP than F1 as well.

[Tommy Cookers]

question for engineers:
.. a design with turbo and compressor not mechanically linked and with a MGUH on the turbo and a electrically powered compressor is easier to project and setup ?

that's saying have the turbine and compressor (electrically) linked whenever a link is needed
that would need 2 electrical machines not 1 and 2 CUs not 1

[tpe]

Has the fuel flow rate been announced?

The F1TV video says 70-80 kg/hr.

Next step is to actually call for tenders for the block part of the engine.

Is that speculation, or is it confirmed that the bottom-end of the engine will be a spec part from Gibson or Mechachrome or somebody? If so, that would be logical given the competition is meant to be on the electrical side.

The FIA are saying something about standardised crankshaft, pistons etc but it seems a bit vague. Does that mean fully spec, or rather just open source, common design but made by the individual manufacturers?

Actually it's a sarcasm, at least for now.
Reflects my dissatisfaction with those rules, just because they want to please VW.

[Zynerji]

How is it still F1 if they delete basic cool stuff like VLIM?!?!?!

Push the envelope, watch it bend.