2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[mendis]

WTF is Sainz doing on the track? He is no better than Perez. He is decent in quali but horrible in races.

[Xyz22]

The issue is not that the car is not fast after a TD - we should avoid giving simplistic analysis similar to the press - as the car is still, as it has been all along, fast on a single lap. Really pole was there for the taking.

But, as has also been the case all season but is now getting steadily worse, the Ferrari has worse deg than their rivals. I don’t necessarily see any reason that this has anything to do with the TD - we saw it in Miami for example, in Baku - but it does seem to be getting worse as the season progresses. Seems like somehow they need to find a different way to set the car up for the race - as with the current cars you can’t hold the lead even if you do get pole - but tbh hopefully they’ve already switched attention to next year as this one is already a lost cause.

There were races when the deg was absolutely like fine in Paul Ricard or Austria. In Hungary Leclerc had very good tyre management. The issue started from SPA.

The TD had a major impact, for sure.

[CaribouBread]

The issue is not that the car is not fast after a TD - we should avoid giving simplistic analysis similar to the press - as the car is still, as it has been all along, fast on a single lap. Really pole was there for the taking.

But, as has also been the case all season but is now getting steadily worse, the Ferrari has worse deg than their rivals. I don’t necessarily see any reason that this has anything to do with the TD - we saw it in Miami for example, in Baku - but it does seem to be getting worse as the season progresses. Seems like somehow they need to find a different way to set the car up for the race - as with the current cars you can’t hold the lead even if you do get pole - but tbh hopefully they’ve already switched attention to next year as this one is already a lost cause.

My personal hypothesis is that they are being affected by the bouncing restriction more than the floor directive. They used to have monster traction and compliance when the car bounced heavily but settled beautifully when it mattered. Now that they have to run the suspension in an suboptimum range to reduce bouncing everywhere, the suspension has lost its edge on traction, this has compounded into their tyre woes as they have to throw away their setups and previous tyre understanding.

[JPower]

Still saying no effect from the TD.

[JPower]

From Sainz

It’s race pace that we’re missing. I’m not happy with how the car felt in the race. It was super tricky to drive, were always fighting the rear a lot, and a lot of overheating. We need to find [out] why the car in the race is not as strong as in quali.

[tpe]

The issue is not that the car is not fast after a TD - we should avoid giving simplistic analysis similar to the press - as the car is still, as it has been all along, fast on a single lap. Really pole was there for the taking.

But, as has also been the case all season but is now getting steadily worse, the Ferrari has worse deg than their rivals. I don’t necessarily see any reason that this has anything to do with the TD - we saw it in Miami for example, in Baku - but it does seem to be getting worse as the season progresses. Seems like somehow they need to find a different way to set the car up for the race - as with the current cars you can’t hold the lead even if you do get pole - but tbh hopefully they’ve already switched attention to next year as this one is already a lost cause.

My personal hypothesis is that they are being affected by the bouncing restriction more than the floor directive. They used to have monster traction and compliance when the car bounced heavily but settled beautifully when it mattered. Now that they have to run the suspension in an suboptimum range to reduce bouncing everywhere, the suspension has lost its edge on traction, this has compounded into their tyre woes as they have to throw away their setups and previous tyre understanding.

It makes sense

[Xyz22]

From Sainz

It’s race pace that we’re missing. I’m not happy with how the car felt in the race. It was super tricky to drive, were always fighting the rear a lot, and a lot of overheating. We need to find [out] why the car in the race is not as strong as in quali.

This race wasn't anything new in terms of gap to Charles. Probably a bit inflated by the new ERS system, which is 2 kg lighter. Carlos has always been struggling in race trim in 2022. I personally don't know why as last year, outside some outliers, he was competitive... This has happened in every single race this year. The issue is that the car is slower now, which makes things even worse. Also the team put him under pressure with a clown like pit stop that --- his race completely.

My idea is that the Team, after the changes introduced due to the TD 039, has absolutely no clue how to setup the car.

[jumpingfish]

The issue is not that the car is not fast after a TD - we should avoid giving simplistic analysis similar to the press - as the car is still, as it has been all along, fast on a single lap. Really pole was there for the taking.

But, as has also been the case all season but is now getting steadily worse, the Ferrari has worse deg than their rivals. I don’t necessarily see any reason that this has anything to do with the TD - we saw it in Miami for example, in Baku - but it does seem to be getting worse as the season progresses. Seems like somehow they need to find a different way to set the car up for the race - as with the current cars you can’t hold the lead even if you do get pole - but tbh hopefully they’ve already switched attention to next year as this one is already a lost cause.

My personal hypothesis is that they are being affected by the bouncing restriction more than the floor directive. They used to have monster traction and compliance when the car bounced heavily but settled beautifully when it mattered. Now that they have to run the suspension in an suboptimum range to reduce bouncing everywhere, the suspension has lost its edge on traction, this has compounded into their tyre woes as they have to throw away their setups and previous tyre understanding.

I agree. I think the need to look at the size of the jumps makes it necessary to raise the car above the optimal setting. As for the illegal bottom, something does not converge. It was stated that RB and Ferrari (only they are scammers) would slow down, and Mercedes would catch up with them. But the RB didn't lose speed, which calls into question Ferrari should slow down due to underbody stiffness checks. At the same time, it was known a priori that the RB does not jump, therefore, for them, measurements of the amplitude of oscillations do not care at all. But the same cannot be said for Ferrari.
If I were Binotto, I would have been banging my fists on the tables, accusing the FIA ​​and Mercedes of conspiracy, threatening reprisals and setting all the media on them. And fired the chief strategist.

[CaribouBread]

[JPower]

From Sainz

It’s race pace that we’re missing. I’m not happy with how the car felt in the race. It was super tricky to drive, were always fighting the rear a lot, and a lot of overheating. We need to find [out] why the car in the race is not as strong as in quali.

This race wasn't anything new in terms of gap to Charles. Probably a bit inflated by the new ERS system, which is 2 kg lighter. Carlos has always been struggling in race trim in 2022. I personally don't know why as last year, outside some outliers, he was competitive... This has happened in every single race this year. The issue is that the car is slower now, which makes things even worse. Also the team put him under pressure with a clown like pit stop that --- his race completely.

My idea is that the Team, after the changes introduced due to the TD 039, has absolutely no clue how to setup the car.

I think his pace was fine from Canada to France. He looked legitimately fast in the latter. Since wheels down at Hungary his pace on mediums in particular hasn’t been there. Don’t know why its that tire in particular.

[organic]

From Sainz

This race wasn't anything new in terms of gap to Charles. Probably a bit inflated by the new ERS system, which is 2 kg lighter. Carlos has always been struggling in race trim in 2022. I personally don't know why as last year, outside some outliers, he was competitive... This has happened in every single race this year. The issue is that the car is slower now, which makes things even worse. Also the team put him under pressure with a clown like pit stop that --- his race completely.

My idea is that the Team, after the changes introduced due to the TD 039, has absolutely no clue how to setup the car.

I think his pace was fine from Canada to France. He looked legitimately fast in the latter. Since wheels down at Hungary his pace on mediums in particular hasn’t been there. Don’t know why its that tire in particular.

Could be the France update isn't working as expected?

[bluechris]

Ferrari at the start of the season was fast, right? we all agree on this. Later as the season progressed we saw them loosing in top speed and especially when the DRS was open. They try really hard to fix this and they focus solely in the Rear wing where they make it skinier and skinier in every update. This unbalances the car and the last races we hear the drivers say they dont have good balance. Sainz said the same today.
This is the problem for me. They need to see the overall package and not only the rear wing or the beam wing. RB has a Mega Floor and this is from where they loose for me.

[Andi76]

I am starting to believe the TD has hurt the car. On top of that, their inefficient operations is making it impossible to compete. This is not what we envisage at the beginning of the year.

Completely agree. I did not think it had hurt the car, but after todays race, i am totall convinced it has hurt Ferrari a lot. There are several indicators for that - tyre degradation has worsened and the race pace, too. Its not like the Red Bull suddenly is so much faster(as the gaps to the competition has not changed dramatically). Its the Ferrari that is much slower in the races. Qualifying pace is still there and the gap to the competition is still the same in qualifying than it always has been. You can clearly see that in relation to Mercedes and Alpine at Spa. But in the race - tyre degradation became worse and Ferrari suddenly has to fight with Mercedes(a car that was much slower than the Ferrari when Ferrari did not make mistakes), even when the temperatures are perfect for the F1-75.

Because of the TD Ferrari probably lost downforce, even if the difference between qualifying and race is a mystery to me. Spa, a track where cars are forced to use high ride heights, clearly showed the Red Bull is superior at high ride heights. Lower downforce was probably also the reason why Ferrari did not have the advantage in slow corners they used to have. And less aerodynamic load would result in the car sliding more(what it obviously does) with the well known negative effect on tyre degradation... so i think the TD indeed hurts Ferrari a lot.

But i think accusing Ferrari, like some people do, of again exploiting a loophole is not fair. Every team constantly does that. Thats F1 and exactly thats the job of Technical Directors, Chief Designers etc. And as a team you try to maximise your performance. If you find a loophole that allows you to a use a certain geometry of your venturi-tunnel that has a big performance gain - of course you use it! You would be stupid not to do this. And thats i think happened at Ferrari. Ferraris tunnel roofs are very low with obviouly great performance. But they probably also require low height. By exploiting this loophole Ferrari was able to constantly run at these low ride heights, even in the race. By closing that loophole its not possible to run at the required ride heights in the race and thats what now hurts Ferraris performance, i think. But of course you make use of a "philosophy", that, by exploitation a loophole, gives you superior performance. No one would ever have thought that the FIA would change this loophole in the middle of a season. So i think its not fair to say something like that. Everyone is constantly doing that. And no championship winning F1 car ever was completely "within the spirit of the regulations". And at the end of the day i do not think that this will have a big negative effect on next years car. The performance is there. They just have to work out how to make use of it at higher ride heights. Others still lack performance, or do not know why theit car has performance on one day and lacks performance on the day after. So, in my opinion, Ferrari is still in a much better position than all the other teams(except of Red Bull) technically. They obviously have understood ground effect cars and the F1-75 is a great car as a basis for the 2023 car. I still think in terms of the overall concept of the car - Ferraris concept is the best one and has more room for developement than any other concept. So technically i think Ferraris is totally fine. Unfortunately they are not in terms of organisation and strategy. And if they ever will - they will need one or even two more years to improve as necessary in these areas. But i think Ferrari Fans should be happy that Ferrari made a big step forward. Two years ago Ferrari was a midfield team, and not the best. This year Ferrari had the best car untill an unnecessary and unusual TD compromissed their aero-performance in the races(thats what i think is the reason for Ferraris problems), they were, for most of the season a championship contender and fight for P2 of the WCC. A huge step within only 2 years.

I fell that for the second time in three years Ferrari has bet everything on exploiting a loophole.
Once the loophole has been closed, the performance has gone and project need to start from scratch with two years of aero development lost in following that loophole. So game over until next rule reshuffle for Ferrari.

You’re over exaggerating big time considering it was Charles’ pole to lose yesterday has he not screwed it in S2.

Ferrari might have been impacted by the TD, but surely not to the point they need to change the complete car design. It was a small loophole after all.

What is more of a reason for Ferrari’s pace deficit is the lack of upgrades in my opinion. Over the season they’ve brought 2 floors, only a tiny change to the engine cover, several rear wings with different downforce levels, a lower downforce beam wing configuration and some changes to the “bargeboard” area. Most of them as a single upgrade package. That’s it mostly.
On the other hand, RedBull has been upgrading their car almost every race.

From now on Ferrari completely need to focus on the 2023 car and whatever they decide to bring to the F1-75, it should be with 2023 in mind.

I think they have already done that some weeks before the summer break. That would explain the lacks of upgrades. And also - does anyone seriously believe that Binotto and his drivers and team believed it is possible to make up 70 or 80 points(thats how many points they were behind Verstappen when they decided to put their money on the 2023 project)? This would not be the first time something similar happened. And one of Binottos "teachers" even did this three times in his career and was always sucessfull...

[Xyz22]

This race wasn't anything new in terms of gap to Charles. Probably a bit inflated by the new ERS system, which is 2 kg lighter. Carlos has always been struggling in race trim in 2022. I personally don't know why as last year, outside some outliers, he was competitive... This has happened in every single race this year. The issue is that the car is slower now, which makes things even worse. Also the team put him under pressure with a clown like pit stop that --- his race completely.

My idea is that the Team, after the changes introduced due to the TD 039, has absolutely no clue how to setup the car.

I think his pace was fine from Canada to France. He looked legitimately fast in the latter. Since wheels down at Hungary his pace on mediums in particular hasn’t been there. Don’t know why its that tire in particular.

Could be the France update isn't working as expected?

That would be very strange because the car was quite competitive in France and also in FP sessions in Hungary with very high temps. Also in Hungary Leclerc still had the pace to fight for the win, so a very different scenario compared to SPA and Zandvoort.

They could try a comp between the old and the new spec but maybe that is not possible due to the new TD.

[organic]

Ferrari at the start of the season was fast, right? we all agree on this. Later as the season progressed we saw them loosing in top speed and especially when the DRS was open. They try really hard to fix this and they focus solely in the Rear wing where they make it skinier and skinier in every update. This unbalances the car and the last races we hear the drivers say they dont have good balance. Sainz said the same today.
This is the problem for me. They need to see the overall package and not only the rear wing or the beam wing. RB has a Mega Floor and this is from where they loose for me.

Leclerc has recently been complaining about a lot of understeer, which would not be helped, but rather worsened, by bringing more Rear/beam wing