2021 Cost Cap Rumours and Speculation

[GrizzleBoy]

Anyone else find it funny that before it was confirmed that Red Bull failed to comply with the cost cap, taking rumours seriously or even discussion of them too much was almost blasphemy.

But now that all the rumors coming out are to downplay or excuse Red Bulls inability to comply with the cost cap, many of the same people are now taking the rumors providing excuses for Red Bull veeeery seriously.

[codetower]

Newey has his own company too which he is a director of.

RACING SERVICES LIMITED
Company number 05656947

So does this company work on anything related to RB? If so, how much of that companies expenses come from Newey's salary?

So can a team hire someone who has an aerodynamics company, pay them 30 mil a year, keep them as a top 3 on their payroll... then that person uses some of that 30mil to develop in their company and provide the team with knowledge, parts, etc?

[AeroDynamic]

Anyone else find it funny that before it was confirmed that Red Bull failed to comply with the cost cap, taking rumours seriously or even discussion of them too much was almost blasphemy.

But now that all the rumors coming out are to downplay or excuse Red Bulls inability to comply with the cost cap, many of the same people are now taking the rumors providing excuses for Red Bull veeeery seriously.

like one of the mods said, its pure gold!

selectively choosing which rumours to trust based on what they want or dont want to believe.

It's a good way to see where and who ones bias lies. Pay attention.

[hollus]

Newey’s salary would not be equal to the overspend. Newey’s salary minus whoeverwasreportedasnumberthree’s salary is the difference.
If Newey makes 13M and that guy who is now 4th highest paid makes 7M, it adds 6 million to the spent money that counts towards the cap.

[chrisc90]

Newey has his own company too which he is a director of.

RACING SERVICES LIMITED
Company number 05656947

So does this company work on anything related to RB? If so, how much of that companies expenses come from Newey's salary?

So can a team hire someone who has an aerodynamics company, pay them 30 mil a year, keep them as a top 3 on their payroll... then that person uses some of that 30mil to develop in their company and provide the team with knowledge, parts, etc?

I imagine its a VERY VERY complicated structure that Red Bull could have set up.

I think Just-a-fan said before that Red Bull only have 57people on the books. You have to ask how many people does it take to design, build, run, and operate on a race weekend in terms of mechanics and strategy personnel, media representatives etc. Another one is how those people are distributed out between the PU side and the race team side, or any other sub-companies there may be.

Like you say, is there any rules in place that stop the team outsourcing stuff like parts design, wind tunnels for the design of those parts and testing. I mean if your paying someone £30million that outsources the work, you could technically build another company that specialise in F1 car design, have their own wind-tunnel with unlimited running time and they could then feed back the most important/crucial designs to be further developed 'in-house' and ran on the Red Bull wind-tunnel/CFD to show that they are making use of their tunnel.

[Wouter]

It's interesting to look at Red Bull's accounts. For the year ending 31 December 2020, they had 59 employees. 2 in administration, 57 in racing and production. With a wage bill of just under £10m.

.
Could you tell me where I can find those figures? I've googled, but can't find them. Do you have a link?

[chrisc90]

It's interesting to look at Red Bull's accounts. For the year ending 31 December 2020, they had 59 employees. 2 in administration, 57 in racing and production. With a wage bill of just under £10m.

.
Could you tell me where I can find those figures? I've googled, but can't find them. Do you have a link?

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/03120645

You can also go back to the companies house main page and find infomation on any company or person in charge of any company. for example Christian horner, Adrian Newey etc etc

[Shakeman]

If I were an ‘external’ contractor paid by Company A to provide consultancy on two projects, Project A and Project B, and company A wanted me to ‘lose’ time I’ve spent on Project A and charge it to Project B’s cost centre I could do that quite easily.

Anyone catch my drift?

[AR3-GP]

It's interesting to look at Red Bull's accounts. For the year ending 31 December 2020, they had 59 employees. 2 in administration, 57 in racing and production. With a wage bill of just under £10m.

.
Could you tell me where I can find those figures? I've googled, but can't find them. Do you have a link?

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/03120645

You can also go back to the companies house main page and find infomation on any company or person in charge of any company. for example Christian horner, Adrian Newey etc etc

Interesting. Any reason why there is a RBPT Limited AND and RBPT 2026 Limited?

[chrisc90]

.
Could you tell me where I can find those figures? I've googled, but can't find them. Do you have a link?

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/03120645

You can also go back to the companies house main page and find infomation on any company or person in charge of any company. for example Christian horner, Adrian Newey etc etc

Interesting. Any reason why there is a RBPT Limited AND and RBPT 2026 Limited?

Presumably so they can claim they are a 'new' engine manufacturer and make use of the extra benefits associated with that.

[AR3-GP]

Newey has his own company too which he is a director of.

RACING SERVICES LIMITED
Company number 05656947

So does this company work on anything related to RB? If so, how much of that companies expenses come from Newey's salary?

So can a team hire someone who has an aerodynamics company, pay them 30 mil a year, keep them as a top 3 on their payroll... then that person uses some of that 30mil to develop in their company and provide the team with knowledge, parts, etc?

I imagine its a VERY VERY complicated structure that Red Bull could have set up.

I think Just-a-fan said before that Red Bull only have 57people on the books. You have to ask how many people does it take to design, build, run, and operate on a race weekend in terms of mechanics and strategy personnel, media representatives etc. Another one is how those people are distributed out between the PU side and the race team side, or any other sub-companies there may be.

Like you say, is there any rules in place that stop the team outsourcing stuff like parts design, wind tunnels for the design of those parts and testing. I mean if your paying someone £30million that outsources the work, you could technically build another company that specialise in F1 car design, have their own wind-tunnel with unlimited running time and they could then feed back the most important/crucial designs to be further developed 'in-house' and ran on the Red Bull wind-tunnel/CFD to show that they are making use of their tunnel.

I believe said company has to assign a fair value to their work. so basically if they've spent thousands of hours in the windtunnel, the fair value will be quite high.

[AR3-GP]

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... y/03120645

You can also go back to the companies house main page and find infomation on any company or person in charge of any company. for example Christian horner, Adrian Newey etc etc

Interesting. Any reason why there is a RBPT Limited AND and RBPT 2026 Limited?

Presumably so they can claim they are a 'new' engine manufacturer and make use of the extra benefits associated with that.

I don't think it works like that. The FIA define the new manufacturer and that area is written pretty well. No loopholes and in their total discretion.

[morefirejules08]

It amazes me how many posters are devising ways for Redbull to cheat the cost cap.

[Shakeman]

It amazes me how many posters are devising ways for Redbull to cheat the cost cap.

Check out the thread title.

[chrisc90]

Interesting. Any reason why there is a RBPT Limited AND and RBPT 2026 Limited?

Presumably so they can claim they are a 'new' engine manufacturer and make use of the extra benefits associated with that.

I don't think it works like that. The FIA define the new manufacturer and that area is written pretty well. No loopholes and in their total discretion.

Who knows, there must be some reason for it. Effectively they will be a new manufacturer come the new era of engines, which is why there is probably a separate company for it. Or they want to throw tonnes of money at the '26 engine.

There will be a very good reason, same way you have the advanced technologies department too, which I guess is research and development into the carbon manufacturing process.

These big companies arent stupid. All of it could be done under the 1 'roof' or company brand, but there will be a lot of benefits etc that come with multiple companies. Just about every big corporation will do the same. And its perfectly legal to do so in the UK business world.

Its wayyyy more complicated than your average person off the streets will understand(and more than likely the FIA too) how these companies are set up and the benefits of having different sub-companies associated with it. I mean look how likes of star bucks, google etc all pay next to no tax in the UK....