2022 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[LM10]

I can't imagine how Binotto and Ferrari would have reacted to this TD039 had the engine been more reliable, they would have been in a situation were Max was now devouring their points advantage on his way to easy 2022 WDC. And all this RB cost cap cheating on top of rule change playing to RB advantage.

Will the rule changes for next season really benefit RedBull? I can remember you saying that they won’t like it. At the same time I’m thinking that raising the floor edges won’t hurt them since they don’t have a true ground-effect car (that was the F1-75 until it was slowed down artificially), but a car relying more on diffuser performance like prior generation. They even started putting some rake on the car, which on it’s own should be evidence of them not having a true ground effect car. Correct me if I’m wrong please, just thinking on my amateur level here.

[Vanja #66]

Fixing the PU reliability to get all the power available will be key in order to compete next year.

Definitely, along with changes to strategy decision-making process.

Well.. The graphic above is measured relative to Max who himself said he damaged the tyres fighting Charles. Plus he was trapped behind Charles for some laps so we can not just adjust it so easily

Very true, I think a pace increase of 0.1-0.15s per average lap at most was possible. At the very most.

Will the rule changes for next season really benefit RedBull? I can remember you saying that they won’t like it. At the same time I’m thinking that raising the floor edges won’t hurt them since they don’t have a true ground-effect car (that was the F1-75 until it was slowed down artificially), but a car relying more on diffuser performance like prior generation. They even started putting some rake on the car, which on it’s own should be evidence of them not having a true ground effect car. Correct me if I’m wrong please, just thinking on my amateur level here.

Yes, but I was thinking about TD039 in that comment.

[LM10]

Yes, but I was thinking about TD039 in that comment.

Oh, alright. So you actually think that the changes for next season will hurt RedBull? If yes, why? My totally unprofessional guess would be that raising the floor edges would relatively benefit a higher rake car.

[AR3-GP]

Yes, but I was thinking about TD039 in that comment.

Oh, alright. So you actually think that the changes for next season will hurt RedBull? If yes, why? My totally unprofessional guess would be that raising the floor edges would relatively benefit a higher rake car.

A CFD guy ran some simulations recently and suggested the same: viewtopic.php?p=1097113#p1097113

10. I've checked regulation of 2023, higher floor edge needs more design iterations. Higher floor make less lost for high rake cars, such as Redbull. So I predict Red Bull can defend the champion in 2023.
​https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-c4977fb8b8 ... _720w.webp

[Vanja #66]

Oh, alright. So you actually think that the changes for next season will hurt RedBull? If yes, why? My totally unprofessional guess would be that raising the floor edges would relatively benefit a higher rake car.

I think overall performance will drop for everyone. Red Bull will be hurt because they rely on a peaky design of the throat vs other team that have a floor profile like a wing underside basically. This RB design was likely optimized for high rake in the first place, so raising throat height is an unknown altogether.

A CFD guy ran some simulations recently and suggested the same: viewtopic.php?p=1097113#p1097113

10. I've checked regulation of 2023, higher floor edge needs more design iterations. Higher floor make less lost for high rake cars, such as Redbull. So I predict Red Bull can defend the champion in 2023.
​https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-c4977fb8b8 ... _720w.webp

We need to wait for his comments on actual floor geometry for better conclusion. To me it looks like he didn't change that between two models, only front vanes and some details of floor edges. He also used RB beam wings on both models.

[AR3-GP]

Oh, alright. So you actually think that the changes for next season will hurt RedBull? If yes, why? My totally unprofessional guess would be that raising the floor edges would relatively benefit a higher rake car.

I think overall performance will drop for everyone. Red Bull will be hurt because they rely on a peaky design of the throat vs other team that have a floor profile like a wing underside basically. This RB design was likely optimized for high rake in the first place, so raising throat height is an unknown altogether.

A CFD guy ran some simulations recently and suggested the same: viewtopic.php?p=1097113#p1097113

10. I've checked regulation of 2023, higher floor edge needs more design iterations. Higher floor make less lost for high rake cars, such as Redbull. So I predict Red Bull can defend the champion in 2023.
​https://pic1.zhimg.com/80/v2-c4977fb8b8 ... _720w.webp

We need to wait for his comments on actual floor geometry for better conclusion. To me it looks like he didn't change that between two models, only front vanes and some details of floor edges. He also used RB beam wings on both models.

Don't get me wrong. The authors comment that "RB will defend 2023" is presumptuous. How much you lose, and how much you recover are two completely different things. Ferrari have a well of issues which have nothing to do with aero (engine reliability, strategy) that they are expected to improve upon for 2023.

His model doesn't tell us Ferrari won't be faster next year. We can't know that. It depends on how both teams develop over the winter. It is, nonetheless, an interesting observation about the immediate unoptimized effect of the floor edge height. There's no analysis of the diffuser throat change. I would be interested in seeing this as well.

[Vanja #66]

Yup, agreed

[mzso]

all Ferrari teams have introduced new ICEs every 3-5 races until now. I'm actually more surprised that only Leclerc takes one, and not Sainz as well. I guess it'll be his turn next week then.

Sainz cunningly only uses the engine for 1-2 laps on many races, so it lasts a lot longer for him.

This table just shows that 3 units per year is an insane request for such a long season. Even RB will use unit 6 surely, or risk DNF in final races.

It's only insane because the engines were frozen which means the teams can't really adapt. Toyota, Porsche,Audi developed 1000hp powertrains that could race for 24 hours so I think it's technically feasible without the freeze.

I think it's mainly about the strategic value of having a better performing engine with grid penalties, rather then a fully reliable PU that lasts the distance without grid penalties, but at a lower performance.

[mzso]

Difficult day for the team. Russell's d*** head move might have costed more than just a race I am afraid. Good recovery from Charles, but there wasn't much left in tyres in relation to Red Bull.

You mean Sainz's idiotic move. Wrenching the car without a thought about anyone else being on the track. Russel already aimed at the spot Sainz suddenly went, he of course couldn't retroactively make a different move...

Maybe you think you know better than FIA who applied a penalty to Russell? And better than Russell himself??

You're really arguing with FIA's ability to make the right judgment?

[mzso]

I haven't really well understood why he made his last stop so early. He changed to hard 5 laps after Ver, but switched to medium at the same lap of Ver

It was actually a great call in order to defend from Russell / Perez UC. We were slower than them with the hard tyres.

This car can't win a race on pure pace. There is nothing to do. We can fight with Perez for P2 or P3 if MB is involved.

You are? Which are you, Leclerc or Sainz?

[organic]

Difficult day for the team. Russell's d*** head move might have costed more than just a race I am afraid. Good recovery from Charles, but there wasn't much left in tyres in relation to Red Bull.

You mean Sainz's idiotic move. Wrenching the car without a thought about anyone else being on the track. Russel already aimed at the spot Sainz suddenly went, he of course couldn't retroactively make a different move...

Russell would've been able to see Sainz was going to be where he ended up, if not for the fact that he was focusing too much on battling Hamilton; he himself said as much post-race.

[mzso]

Difficult day for the team. Russell's d*** head move might have costed more than just a race I am afraid. Good recovery from Charles, but there wasn't much left in tyres in relation to Red Bull.

You mean Sainz's idiotic move. Wrenching the car without a thought about anyone else being on the track. Russel already aimed at the spot Sainz suddenly went, he of course couldn't retroactively make a different move...

Russell would've been able to see Sainz was going to be where he ended up, if not for the fact that he was focusing too much on battling Hamilton; he himself said as much post-race.

Even his apology sounds like it's Sainz fault...

[mzso]

Fixing the PU reliability to get all the power available will be key in order to compete next year. Let's hope they will be able to produce a car competitive for the win, praying for no clown like in season regulation changes.

Even then they didn't do anything with the strategy department as far as we know. So clowning is bound to be the case, with less technical DNFs.

Also their race engineers are useless. It's always "checking", "we'll get back to you", "What do you think? Question?"
They never seem to know anything to give an immediate response; ask the drivers for ideas; often they seem outright out of touch with what's happening on the track. All of this with very poor communication skills.

I can't seem Ferrari winning unless they'll have a car with a hefty performance advantage... Which doesn't seem likely.

[organic]

Fixing the PU reliability to get all the power available will be key in order to compete next year. Let's hope they will be able to produce a car competitive for the win, praying for no clown like in season regulation changes.

Even then they didn't do anything with the strategy department as far as we know. So clowning is bound to be the case, with less technical DNFs.

Also their race engineers are useless. It's always "checking", "we'll get back to you", "What do you think? Question?"
They never seem to know anything to give an immediate response; ask the drivers for ideas; often they seem outright out of touch with what's happening on the track. All of this with very poor communication skills.

I can't seem Ferrari winning unless they'll have a car with a hefty performance advantage... Which doesn't seem likely.

Having listened in to a lot of Max's/Checo's race audio, Ferrari are not very different to RB in this regard to be honest. They get a disproportionate amount of hate for their engineers saying "checking", and asking the drivers questions. Maybe their approach to asking questions makes them seem less confident than GP or Bird but that isn't a fundamental issue but something potentially stemming from English being a 2nd language/ at very least something that would be easy to work on

[Xyz22]

I haven't really well understood why he made his last stop so early. He changed to hard 5 laps after Ver, but switched to medium at the same lap of Ver

It was actually a great call in order to defend from Russell / Perez UC. We were slower than them with the hard tyres.

This car can't win a race on pure pace. There is nothing to do. We can fight with Perez for P2 or P3 if MB is involved.

You are? Which are you, Leclerc or Sainz?

Both